#128 How to Give Constructive Feedback Using The (4WS)

Hi there and welcome back to the 360 Leadership Podcast. I hope you are doing well. I am so excited because this week we have welcomed some new members into 360 Leaders Club and I just love, love, love, love, love supporting our leaders in the club. So if you want to learn more about joining us when the doors open again in September, you can visit 360leadersclub .com or you can reach out to me for more information.

So on this week’s episode of the show, we are talking all things feedback. Okay. Now I know having worked in the corporate world for many years, there’s a lot of companies who have a really good feedback culture and a feedback culture means it’s, you know, in theory, it’s all very open. It’s all very honest. People should have a growth mindset, which I’m going to cover in another episode. However,

when it comes to actually doing it, it can feel really, really scary, right? Especially if it’s with a challenging team member who you know is going to get defensive or if it’s with your boss or if it’s with a peer who really is not playing ball and is maybe promoting themselves too much and taking credit for other people’s work and stuff like that. And those kind of people often are not aware of their behavior. So I believe feedback is always a gift.

No matter how difficult it is to do, I think it’s something as a leader you absolutely have to get down. So before I get into sharing the tools to support you today, I want to share a story with you. So I remember years and years ago, I had a boss and she was a real role model for me. I really looked up to her. She was very strong. She was very knowledgeable. She was really likable.

She was funny. She, you know, very productive. She was a great leader because she was so good at like prioritization and communication with her team. And she was a great, you know, at developing her team. But one area that she always let herself down in was that she was extremely volatile. You know the ones. So I remember one day being in a meeting with her. We were in a startup and we were trying to bring in some equipment or something like that.

Lucy Gernon (03:06.478)
and the project was delayed and it was a big delay. And you know, when you’re working on a really big project with an aggressive timeline, shock horror, like every project in the world, you know, there’s deadlines to be met. So anyway, there was this meeting was being held with multiple stakeholders to understand how we could get this project back on track. Now there was something that needed to happen from an automation tech perspective. And this was the thing that was holding up the project.

And I remember my everyone, my boss was like really pissed off because she wanted to deliver on time and there was a lot of like negativity, you know, going into the meeting and, you know, you just knew it was going to be a tense situation. And I remember we were all sitting there in the room, in the boardroom. We were drinking coffee. You know, the guy who was presenting had his slides up and we were building rapport as you do at the start of any kind of meeting. And then in she walked.

And you just knew the mood instantly kind of changed. Now, bearing in mind, I’ve really liked this woman and she was super good at her job and she was like somebody I aspire to be. And I was like, and instantly going, right, why? Like it doesn’t really have to be this way. Like her, her energy coming into the meeting is literally, you know, energy is contagious. So it kind of spread like wildfire and everyone really settled in and kind of got quiet. And I remember he started presenting the reason why there was the delay.

Why this specific delay? And the reason was there was some corporate guideline out there that said they couldn’t do X, OK, that they couldn’t do X, but she wanted them to do X. And he was explaining very calmly, you know, referring back to the guideline. And I remember like she’d like literally threw her diary down on the ground and she was like, this is F ridiculous. And she stormed out at the meeting. I know.

So we were all left there kind of scratching our heads and like it just left a really bad taste in the room. It actually from a personal brand perspective, I knew that people were talking about her and how she was behaving. And I knew that that wasn’t the way that she would have ever wanted anyone to see her. So she was known as being quite a dominant person and she was, you know, also very likable, but also somebody that you wouldn’t want to cross.

Lucy Gernon (05:28.046)
But at the time I had literally just done coach training. Like it was probably back in like, I don’t know, like it was a long time ago. And I remember they were talking all about this feedback thing. And I remember feeling really brave and going, right, I am going to give her the feedback. I’m going to give my boss the feedback, what happened in the meeting. So I was kind of scared to do it, but I knew that first of all is I was going into it with a good intent.

So I think that’s one invitation I have for you is around the mindset shift, which is if you go into any feedback discussion and you were doing it from a place of heart and you’re doing it with a place of good intent. It’s going to go fine. OK, so I just reminded myself, I said, right, I’m doing this and I have a good intent. It’s all going to be fine. So I went into the meeting and after the meeting, I remember meeting her.

And I was in the tea room and she was in quite a good mood like the next day. And I approached the conversation in the way that I’m going to share with you now. And I’ll share what she said after I teach you how I did it. OK. So something I get asked all the time in 360 leaders club is about this. So obviously, 360 is my leader, my members club for women and leadership and in the club like these situations come up all the time. And it’s all very well listened to a podcast and.

hearing it today, but what I love is that I have all these tools and tips and frameworks that in the moment as situations occur, I can give them to you and you can put them into practice. And I’m there to hold you accountable to actually take the action, which is fantastic. And some of the girls have used this and it’s done, they’ve gone really, really well. OK, so the first thing that I would invite you to do before you give feedback is you need to center yourself. OK, you need to center yourself.

Now there’s another framework I teach on conflict management called the Khamer model of conflict management. And the C, the step one in that method is center. So it’s all about centering yourself. And again, if you work with me, I can teach you all about that properly. So you need to just ground yourself and go, right, okay, what am I trying to achieve here? What’s the goal? I’m not going into this with any ill intent. I’m going into this with a good heart. Okay, that’s the first step.

Lucy Gernon (07:47.95)
And then the second thing that I invite you to do is it’s really, really, really, really important that you choose the right time to give the feedback. OK, so never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever give the feedback to somebody in the moment. So people talk about in the moment feedback. And I think it’s a load of horse poo, because if you’re given in the moment feedback when somebody is angry, frustrated or agitated.

What do you think is going to happen? You’re going to poke the bear. OK, it’s not the time. So you’ve got to use your emotional intelligence as a leader to pick the right time. And it should absolutely be no more than like 72 hours. Ideally, you would want to do it the next day after they’ve slept on it or something has happened. Now, there are times where in the moment feedback is super valuable. OK, if it’s not in like a heated discussion like this, but for heated discussions and things like it’s just not the time. So choose the right time.

Use your emotional intelligence and then as my husband always says, put your big girl pants on and get ready to do it. OK, so you’re going to have centered yourself. You’re going to have picked the right time to talk to the person. And now you’re going to apply what I call the four W’s. OK, the four W’s is the framework. Super, super simple. So the four W’s stands for what, when, why and where. OK, what, when, why and where. First one.

You’re going to talk to them. You’re going to go in with a good heart and you’re going to say what they did or said specifically. So you’re not going to give anything vague, like sometimes you’re a bit volatile. What does that mean? In the instance with my old boss, I said to her, look, yesterday in the meeting with such and such, I explained the story exactly as I explained it to you. I said, you came into the room and I said, I’m telling you this because…

I really care about you. I look up to you and I said, I just think that you let yourself down. I actually said it as bluntly as that. And I was kind of going, oh my God, what’s going to happen? But I was all like, I’ve had this feedback training now and I’m going to do it. So share what they said or did. So I explained when you when you popped it down on the desk and you got all angry, the mood changed. And when you left the room, you know, people were talking about you pretty much.

Lucy Gernon (10:12.782)
So the second one then is when, so when it occurs. So obviously I explained in my situation, it happened yesterday. In your situation, you might be saying, you know, last week at that meeting, you know, if you’re a bit late on the feedback, definitely just don’t leave it. Like don’t leave it any longer than a week. I know it’s at 72 hours, but I know that sometimes that’s not possible. Don’t leave it a month until you’re one to one or anything. It’s just it’s over. The event is gone. So if you want the most impact, it’s really important to give the timely feedback.

while it’s still relevant, okay? So you would share when it occurred. So if you were given a later stage, you would say two weeks ago or last week when we were in this meeting and remember this happened, okay, so now they’re there with you and they’re in the picture. So they’re actually, you’re gonna tell them the story to bring them along, okay? Then the third step is why? So why did this behavior have an impact? Like what was the impact? So…

In the example I shared, I said the impact of this was, first of all, I view you as a really fit, you know, a really role model. And when, you know, when you did that, that’s not something that I would aspire to be like. That’s the first thing. The second thing on me personally, I said, I felt really awkward being in the room because when you left, you know, they were all obviously riled up after how you had behaved.

And I said, that was really challenging for me to navigate because I had loyalty to you, but also I’m there with them. I’m trying to move the project along. So I explained the impact and then I explained the impact to them. I said, I noticed, and again, I know owned what I noticed that the team’s energy shifted. Their mindset shifted into a more negative space. And I don’t know how willing they’re going to be to cooperate now. And I said, you know, that’s.

That’s the fourth step is the where like where can we improve? I said, what would have been a better way to approach it is to try to kind of come in and, you know, listen, maybe a little bit more and try to work with them because they’re not doing this on purpose. It’s it’s in the guideline. And I remember she looked at me and I was literally like, oh, my God, I have my glass of water. I was like, I’m dead. I’m dead. She’s going to kill me. And she looked at me and she just turned around and she took a breath.

Lucy Gernon (12:34.958)
And she said, no one would ever, ever speak to me like that. She said, no one has ever told me anything like that before. But she said, I really appreciate it. And in that moment, I knew that I had given her some sort of a gift and the way I approached it went really, really well. So I suppose the moral of the story is, is that feedback doesn’t have to be scary, even if it’s with your boss or a challenging peer or a difficult team member.

if you’re going into it with a good heart, okay? If you’re going into it with a good heart, with good intentions. If you’re going into a feedback conversation and your intentions are to try to pull somebody down or to make them feel bad about themselves, first of all, that is not good leadership. That is the worst leadership, okay? If you want people to follow you,

you’ve got to be a good leader, you’ve got to pull them along. So always go into things with compassion, with empathy, where you can. OK. And then you’re going to be that exemplary leader that I know you want to be. So that is just a quick recap on the four W’s. It’s what they said, when it occurred, why it had an impact and to who and then where they can improve next time. And there’s another couple of episodes that I would recommend you listen to if you enjoyed this one, which is episode 108.

which is five strategies to handle a defensive team member with more ease and less frustration, because we all know what it’s like when someone is getting defensive. OK, I would definitely recommend that you go and listen to that one as well. So in summary, just to recap what we went through. So we’ve gone through why it’s important to give feedback, why it’s so, so important, not only for you as a leader, but also for your organization’s culture, for the team performance, for delivery, for morale, all that good stuff.

We’ve talked about the mindset shift that you need to make around going into it with compassion and a good heart. And I shared my 4W’s formula with you too for delivering constructive criticism confidently. So I would love to hear from you. I would love to see you take an action. So are you gonna apply the 4W’s formula? Are you gonna go give somebody feedback today, tomorrow? Please reach out and let me know if you’re gonna use the tool. And this is just…

Lucy Gernon (14:56.686)
an example of some of the resources I teach and coach inside 360 Leaders Club, OK? And when I deliver corporate training where you actually get to workshop and practice this together and have a bit of fun doing it so that when you do it in reality, it is not as scary. And I’m always there to motivate you. And I have a whole host of tools and frameworks like this so I can support you personally in 360 Leaders Club.

or in your team, in your organization. So if you’re interested in working with me at any point, or you’re thinking about, you know, potential training for your team next year or development for yourself, I know you want to start getting that PO process rolling early. So you can submit an inquiry to lucygernon .com forward slash contact. And then we can have a chat about how I can support you.

So that is it for this week’s episode. I hope you found it valuable as always. If you did, please forward it on to some women in leadership in your network. I would so appreciate it. Share the episode if you see it on social media. Subscribe, follow, rate us. Just do anything to support the show because my team and I put so much energy and love and care into giving you this free content. You would be doing us a massive favor and you’d be helping out other women too.

Thanks to Mel for listening, for watching, and I’ll talk to you again same time, same place next week. Bye for now.