#57 How to Climb the Corporate Ladder Faster with C-suite Executive Christine Gagnon

0:02
Welcome back to another episode of the powerhouse Revolution Podcast. Today I have a very, very special guest. So today I am interviewing Miss Christine Gagnan who is a C suite executive with an in depth financial services and private equity experience across multiple different sectors. She has degrees comingout of everywhere when I look at her accolades, and she has also attended Harvard Business School as well as Stanford University, focusing on corporate strategy and innovation. And she has been named one of monitors top 50 Women in equipment finance. So we are going to be talking today all about how Christine has climbed that corporate ladder, and how you can too so you’re very, very welcome, Christine. How are you doing?

1:54
I’m great are getting up to the Christmas time. And next week, as I mentioned, our offices close. So it’s a great week, as far as I’m concerned.

2:01
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think as we’re recording this, guys, it’s actually just Christmas week. So that’s why we’re talking all about the holiday season right now. So Christine, maybe let’s just jump straight into it. Tell me a little bit about your yourself who is the real Christine, and how did you I suppose progress up the corporate ladder?

2:22
Sure. So as you mentioned, I have been in corporate America for now, about 20 years, I started my career at PricewaterhouseCoopers. And then spent some time in banking went to Ernst and Young and now on the African asset finance and row hug group. So it’s been a really exciting journey and read a little bit about me personally, I love to travel. And I think early on in my career, I incorporated that into my career aspirations. And so I lived in New York and Seattle, California, London, Johannesburg. So that was really, really nice for me. Right now, I live in North Carolina, but I work in New York, believe it or not, and luckily, we have a little bit of hybrid action going on. So I’m not always on a plane. I have a husband and I have a dog and my family and it’s actually you’re visiting from Connecticut for the holidays. So we are gearing up. Yeah, yeah.

3:12
So most important question out of all of that is What’s your dog’s name and wants to bring? My dog

3:17
is his her name is Cat Believe it or not? Oh, that’s a very interesting I did not name her. We did not name her. She’s a retired military working dog. She was a former British Army and Royal Air Force. So we adopted her about two years ago.

3:31
Oh, what breed? Is she?

3:33
She’s a Belgian Malinois.

3:34
Oh, wow, I’m I’m gonna have to Google what that looks like. Is she big dog? Like

3:38
a tiny or German Shepherd? is how I like to describe it. Yeah, she’s super sweet,

3:42
easy. How do you find that that when you’re when you’re kind of commuting to like between New York and North Carolina, like North Carolina, I think is that

3:51
North Carolina so it’s, um, it’s you know, I think initially when we were doing this before COVID I just moved from London. Coincidentally, back to the States right before COVID And when I was traveling every week, it was pretty intense. But with COVID I guess you know, there are a lot of don’t say negative outcomes, but the positive outcomes were some of them were hybrid working models. So I’ve been able to reduce the travel schedule to you know, every other every third week to New York, which to me, I think it mixes it up it’s great to have some in person time but at the same time it’s also nice to be able to work from home and be able to do things like this

4:26
Yeah, absolutely. Um, do you mind if I share like just before we came on air we were just talking about the fact that we were both there in our in our like, gym gear on the bottoms and we had our my shirts on what I actually wear in my gym gear. And Christine was the same so we’re not alone. Ladies, if you do that

4:42
guy literally but work dress on with with work trousers underneath. Workout trousers. Yeah,

4:47
exactly. We have to keep it real on this podcast. Okay, so I suppose my first question is, since we’re kind of talking about the balance piece, when you’re talking about the commute and you’ve got a home And then you’ve got a dog and you’re not traveling so much right now. But one thing I hear from women that I work with is that the sometimes the level of travel can really pay a toll on, I suppose family life and seeing friends and activities and things like that. So how do you manage all of that?

5:17
I think for me, I am very well prepared. So this is a very detailed answer. But you know, I have a suitcase always packed. And if someone called me in an hour and said, I need you to get on a flight in three hours, I could do that. And I think that preparation is just something I learned years ago that always be ready to go, I think that really helps. And then two is when I am home, I make a huge effort to share my diary with my friends, our neighbors and say, Hey, these are the weekends, we’re home, what are you guys doing, we’d love to get together. And so there’s a lot of managing, I think, on my part to make it work. But it does. And then we also try to when I am on the road, see the cities that I’m visiting, I try to make the most out of it. And whether it’s you know, just having a nice glass of wine at a restaurant or checking out something, what I have some time in the evening, or maybe staying a weekend or inviting family and friends up to visit me in New York, or if I’m in London. So I think you can do some things like that to make it a bit more normal. But there’s no doubt that you have to be proactive, because it’s almost like in the beginning, when we moved to North Carolina, people are just never sure when we were here. And we wouldn’t necessarily get invites. But now I’m very, very proactive, as I mentioned, to say, Hey, what are you doing in December? I’m home for these two weeks. So we have a very lively social calendar. And, you know, I feel like I’m always busy. And it’s if you put it in the right perspective, I think it’s survivable.

6:46
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, I love that being proactive. That is such such a good tip, because I think a lot of women tend to, you know, put work first and sometimes that can consume and take over and then neglect other things. And then they get to a point where they realize shit, I’ve kind of missed out on so much. And that’s when they come to me, right? So I’m really glad to hear that you’re, you’re being proactive in that space. So, talk to me a little bit about, you know, we were talking just off air about women in the workplace and women in leadership. And I suppose, as a female, in a male dominated world, you have managed to work your way up to sea level, and make a really big impact. So tell me about the transition to I suppose, from maybe middle management, to senior management to sea level?

7:38
Yeah, I think a couple of things, I was always really interested in learning how leadership actually works on the ground. And so I had this aspiration when I was at PricewaterhouseCoopers, to be a chief of staff, and I didn’t mind if it meant getting someone’s coffee, or organizing someone’s diary, there was no sort of task that was too small, because what I really wanted to learn was, how is this job done? How do you manage a team of 1000s of people? How do you run a billion dollar a multibillion dollar firm. And so that was always a curiosity that I had very early on in my career, and was so fortunate that several departments who supported me early on in that that part of my career, I was able to see that. So I think that’s kind of first of all, is kind of looking at maybe how you get there a little bit differently. And then second, was taking some risks. So I had done my leadership rotations at PWC. I went to the bank, and I worked for the C suite there as well. And then when I went to Ernst and Young, I was like, wow, okay, I really need to figure out how I’m going to pivot more into that leadership role. And there’s an opportunity actually to be Chief of Staff to the managing partner for financial services Africa. And it was such a risk for me because I had never lived in Africa before. I didn’t know anything about Joburg, but I had essentially moved there for short term secondment, I decided I was just going to take the risk, do it then a little over 12 months there and eventually became the chief operating officer. So that was a transition into for me my first C suite role was taking taking that risk. And it wasn’t a short journey. I have to say, you know, I had my first leadership rotation in 2008, I believe. And then finally, I think it was probably eight years later, I was able to secure that role. So it took me almost half of my career to get there. But it was certainly worth their journey. I think that’s the perseverance, the flexibility and the risk taking because sometimes there are some things that some projects I took on that maybe didn’t quite fit in the path but you know, no harm, no foul kind of thing.

9:47
So you said something really interesting there if I heard you correctly that you went to Johannesburg for a year and basically you went in for a one role and you left having gone to the C suite in within that year. So they hear that right? Yeah, yes. So I want to know, this is the juice. How did you do that?

10:06
So it’s interesting, because I think we talked offline about, you know, what kind of advice would you have for other people? Or what advice have you been given? You know, I was married before, I don’t mind sharing that. And one of the pieces of advice that my ex husband gave me was, he was like, sometimes, like, don’t be so pushy, you know, you can find a balance between asking for what you want. And, you know, getting that in a way that will make you comfortable and other people comfortable. And that’s always been the balance for me, because sometimes you’re afraid to ask like, oh, my gosh, I don’t really want to go after this. And on the other hand, you’re like, No, I, you know, I need to look out for me, I have certain goals, and I have certain aspirations. So for me, when I was in Johannesburg, I was doing the chief of staff role. And I realized that everything I was really doing was more of a Chief Operating Officer. So I had mentioned that I said, you know, we don’t have a CFO, what do you think about me officially moving into the role of CFO? And I guess, if you don’t ask you, you know, you never know. And the managing partner at the time, he was like, Sure, I think that’s a great idea. Let’s do it. And it was just as easy as that. And it was, it really helped me. So it wasn’t just to title it was really earning my seat at the table, where I was now part of leadership, I was part of partner promotion conversations, I was part of moving our strategy forward, you know, HR discussions about bonuses and raises and things that I think before the chief of staff or wasn’t necessarily is privy to, hmm, that was a really amazing transition. And it really came from me clearly asking the question, and again, you know, not doing it in an aggressive way. And you I think the other thing, too, is being prepared for whatever answer you might get, because I have been told no, many times,

11:49
okay, let’s just write because that’s something that people don’t talk about enough. It’s the same, you know, I obviously have my business and it’s the same, you see people like you who are successful, and people think, Oh, it was plain sailing for her to get there. But in fact, there’s usually Money Money knows and money money failures along the way. So tell me a little bit about the nose and how you kept going.

12:12
Yeah, I have one story that kind of sticks in my head. And it actually there’s, there are two and they’re related. I remember when I was at PwC, and I had the absolute pleasure and opportunity to work with Tim Ryan, who’s the US Chairman. And I remember, I was coming out of leadership rotation. And I’d asked him, I said, Hey, do an opening for our Chief of Staff, I’d really like to be your chief of staff. And so that’s a really bold question. He’s like, you know, obviously, someone was in that role, so that that wasn’t going to happen. And so it wasn’t really a no, but it was okay, you know, let’s it’s trying to find something for you, that kind of suits your interests type of things was a really good chat. But obviously, I didn’t end up being his chief of staff. But funny enough, probably three years later, there was someone in industry who was looking with her chief of staff. And he had forwarded my CV along saying,

12:58
Okay, well, Christine would be a great candidate. If you’re interested, she’d love to interview and I did, I ended up not getting that role, ultimately.

13:06
And then when I went to the bank, when I went to one West Bank, I worked for the vice chairman and asked him the same thing. I was like, I want to be your Chief of Staff. Because to me, it always sort of felt like that was the bridge for me to get into the C suite. And he was like, you know, unfortunately, like, that’s not a role that we have, you know, available or right now, or what have you. And so that was, you know, the third, I would say, no failure, but But third time, I’ve asked in a different context, and it didn’t work out. And the fourth time in that case was the charm in Africa, when I was able to transition to that role. So for me, it doesn’t hurt to ask, and, you know, to our earlier point, you might get one, no, you might get 10 nose, but I don’t think that should set anybody back at you, especially if you’re realistic with your talents and your aspirations. You know, if I wanted to be an opera singer, that’s probably not going to happen. I probably get no forever. But I think what I was what I was wanting for myself was realistic, and it was just finding that right opportunity.

14:02
I absolutely love that. So guys, if you’re multitasking, come back to me on this one. So what I’m kind of hearing if I can maybe paraphrase, there’s a couple of really powerful points that you kind of said there. The first thing is that you knew what you wanted, right? You knew that you it was beyond the title, it was actually you wanted to make an impact. And by getting into this particular role as CEO, you could make the impact you wanted to make, right? So you were kind of clear on the impact. And then second of all, because you knew where you wanted to go, which is something I say in this podcast all the time and to my clients, you then started to take action. So you took action. You heard No, you said cool, you kept going, you took action again, you didn’t get the next role. Cool, you didn’t give up. So I think the really important points that I would love my listeners to take from this is number one, you’ve got to know where you want to go. And the second thing is you just have to keep asking until you get there would you agree?

14:59
I I would agree and I would add to I think half the battle is like the conversation in your brain. I always thought it was crazy because I’m like, okay, you know, I’m talking to myself in my head. And I think positive self talk also super important because yes, you’re getting the nose. It’s all about the perspective, you can sit in your chair, be silent and say to yourself, Oh, my God, I failed. This is terrible. You know, I’m not, I’m not good at this. Or you can say to yourself, it doesn’t matter. I’ve done the best I can. I’ve asked the question on to the next thing.

15:26
Yeah, absolutely. And again, I You’re, you’re preaching to the converted here.

15:46
No, know, I can’t say I’m that rigid. But I think as a general mindset, so it’s probably broader than that, you know, initially, I would say, but you had to practice this a little bit more. Now. It’s sort of ingrained in me, where I’m kind to myself, I tried to be kind to myself. And I really tried to slow down and give myself the right pep talk. I’m kind of my own medicine in that way. I do a lot of work with veterans who are coming out of military service, and might have a lot of interesting backgrounds, whether it’s, you know, several tours in Afghanistan or Iraq and what have you. And so there are some, I’ve talked to a lot of people that really want to work on that. And so the advice I give is, just be kind to yourself, really take a moment slow down, and you’re probably our own best coach, at the end of the day, if you can train yourself to do that. Yeah, you know yourself best, right?

16:53
Absolutely. 100%. I think so many people, we ask everyone else for the answers. Whereas if you just ask yourself, you know what to do you always know what to do yourself. So the next thing I want you to ask me is, that’s really cool. So we’ve covered kind of the mindset required to get to where you are being okay with failure. The other thing I wanted to ask you about, okay, so now you’re there as a female, and obviously, you’re in a minority group as well. What do you find the most challenging?

17:22
I think the most challenging thing is just, I’m constantly it’s not good enough, you know, there’s always somebody doing better. And so, you know, it’s funny, because I hear my own introduction. And, you know, someone might think, Oh, that’s a great CV and a great career for me like, Okay, what’s next? What’s next? Well, they’re doing this and she’s doing that, and he’s doing this. And so I put a lot of pressure on myself. And there’s always this, I would say, pressure that I put on myself to compete unnecessarily with the world, if that makes any sense, like I was. So I think she’s the vice chairwoman of MasterCard, I believe, and Cairns. I did her TEDx London Business School speaker coaching. And it’s someone she’s always someone I looked up to, she’s very successful. And I think, Oh, well, you know, why haven’t I done that? And I think, well, gosh, she’s, you know, she’s retiring this year, she’s a bit ahead of me, in my career, you can’t always compare yourself like that. And so I am so guilty of comparing myself to anyone, everyone. And that’s really unnecessary pressure. So I’d like to work on that personally.

18:34
Yeah. And that’s something again, I think, a lot of us kind of struggle with and I love what you said there about her being farther along. That’s the key is that only was Tony Robbins said that as well. You can’t compare your chapter three to somebody else’s chapter 10. And that’s actually what we do, right?

18:51
Oh, gosh, it’s so easy to do, too. But it’s something we shouldn’t.

18:57
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so something else I wanted to ask is that I hear from women like female executives that I would coach and work with is sometimes it can be lonely at the top. Do you ever find that?

19:12
No, I don’t. And I think it’s because of a couple of things. I’ve been very careful to make sure I’ve kept a good circle of mentors around me. And not that it’s, you know, you know, conniving or anything, but I always make sure Okay, who are my circle of 10 people if I have a problem, or if I need to have a chat about a career move. And so I feel like I’ve maintained those relationships. So I make sure I send my holiday cards I make sure I remember people’s birthdays and it’s not again to be selfish or conniving, but it’s, you know, I think when you invest in those relationships, people appreciate that and they reciprocate because, you know, just like I’m sure my men Torres appreciate mentoring me, I have mentees that I appreciate mentoring. And so that’s a really nice thing. I think the second thing is to,

20:08
I’m a big What You See Is What You Get kind of person. And so at work, I am completely myself. And so it’s not lonely because I can walk into the CEOs office and be like, I’m having a bad day. This is what’s on my mind, I need your opinion, or No, I don’t really want to do that today. Can we just discuss this tomorrow? When you’re authentic? I think it’s less lonely because you’re just comfortable in yourself, and it takes less energy. Yeah. And so it’s not very lonely.

20:34
I absolutely love that. I think there’s so many women in the corporate world who are trying to be somebody that they’re not they’re trying to portray a particular leadership persona. Whereas I think doing what you’re doing, which is actually just be authentic, be genuine, be yourself, then you you’re never going to be lonely, because you’re going to easily make those connections, right?

20:54
Yeah, I think so. And I always thought maybe I didn’t have the right character for leadership because you I have sort of this, you know, maybe dark sense of humor sometimes. And I can be a little sarcastic, and I enjoy like a good laugh. And when I finally became comfortable with the fact okay, this is who I am. Other people enjoy it too, because it comes across as authentic. Whether or not it’s someone’s cup of tea. I always say, you know, I don’t I care. But I kind of don’t care. This is this is what this is what you get the good bad, the ugly. How did

21:27
you want to talk? Right? So I’m a big advocate for being yourself, I think you and I can both tell I gave him the offer. We were just talking about our clothes and the fact that we were born ready and things like that, I think it’s so so important to be yourself. So how did you come to a place where you felt comfortable enough in who you are, to be genuinely who you are at work?

21:52
I think it was probably early on.

21:57
So when I remember being at PWC. And we were on a really high profile engagement, it was very stressful. And there were just so many things going on. And I remember her name is Maryanne the most senior partner that we worked for, she was so herself, she was so direct. And she was a really great person, probably one of one of the most influential people in my career, as many as many other people would probably say the same thing. But she wasn’t trying to impress anyone. And when I observed that she had a ton of respect from people. And it just really impressed me. So the more I studied that, the more I became comfortable with the fact that okay, I’m a little different to and seems to work for her, I’m going to kind of be more comfortable in my skin. And so I spent probably four or five years working with her. And I made it a point and a goal to try to adopt some of her style not not that it’s not authentic, I’m not being myself, but I can see kind of a lot of my personality and her and and how would I let that come out and observe the way that she’s been successful in doing that. So and I just, you know, sort of kept, kept doing that over the years and and eventually, eventually, again, what you see is what You Get, I’m the same person, if you were to go to a party at my house, that I am in a in a boardroom, I’m probably more behaved in the boardroom, but

23:27
I don’t think so. Christine, I’m what you’re saying is, I have a feeling that if you weren’t happy about something that you would be happy enough to just voice that opinion, right?

23:35
Yeah. The other thing I learned from her and others that I’ve worked with at PwC, in particular is people value honesty. People want to hear what you really think. And that’s how you build trust with people. And that’s how you get respect. So if you’re trying to be someone you’re not, or you’re trying to give an answer that you think people want to hear, I don’t find there’s a lot of value, it’s not as valuable. And so that that’s that’s the other thing too, you know, you you’re able to get so much more out of it. When when it’s more relaxing or just yourself.

24:11
Yeah, yeah.

And I think that’s every successful person I speak to actually, that’s one common trait. I think, before you get to even though you’re always becoming right, you’re never ever surely there. But I think people who are trying to aspire sates, for example, to be at your level think they need to act a certain way to get there. Whereas every single person I speak to who have quote unquote made us actually how they’ve got there is by just being who they are. And like I loved what you said about that. That lady who you really admire that you were looking at her and there were certain things and you about your personality you could see in her so that’s something I would do with my with people I work with two would be looking at your personal brand and in that we would look at okay, who inspires you and why do they inspire you because usually There is something about your personality that’s in them that you just need to draw out by actually observing other people. It’s nearly like that that woman was like a mirror for you. So I think that’s something really, really important. I want I want listeners to take away as well.

So finally, just before we finish up, I know we’ve really got into like some really tactical things there.

But if you were to maybe just give three top tips, like to summarize what you’ve said, in terms of getting to, I suppose progressing your career, what would they be?

25:34
So I think we talked about number one, which is be yourself, know yourself, be yourself, I think number two would be to take calculated risks, I always thought of myself as a risk averse person. And then the more I looked into that, and evaluated who I really am, you know, I like calculated risk, I don’t like to jump without kind of knowing where at least the direction I’m jumping into. But those calculated risks, I think, really pay off if you if you want to move in your career can’t always feel safe, because that won’t necessarily yield the results that that that you might want. And I think the third thing is, again, going back to PwC. It was my first year at the firm. And I was all bent out of shape about an interaction when the managers and I went to one of the senior partners, and I was really upset about it. And he, he said to me, he’s like, You know what, you can’t sweat the small stuff. You just can’t. And he put the book because there’s actually a book in my mailbox the next day, a little note saying, hey, great chatting with you don’t forget, don’t sweat the small stuff. And I think that’s, that’s so true. If I may add up for you, actually, it’s a practical tip. I’m such a procrastinator. And one thing that’s really helped me is there was this rule, I don’t know where I read it. But if you can, like, do something in two to three minutes, like to check off your list, just do it, like get it over with because I ended up sometimes having a list of like 20 things that would just take me two minutes each and they’re so stressful, and they occupy so much brain space, when I’m like, I could just take the two minutes and just do that now. So that’s a practical tip that I just absolutely love, because it really works for me.

27:07
I love it. I know you’re gonna kill me, but I like to think in threes and fives. So can you give me one more tip? So I have five tips?

27:14
Sure, I think I always say things are not always going to work out, but they kind of do work out. And so those little failures, those little bumps in the road, they’re fine. There are some days where things are gonna go fabulously. And other days where you’re gonna be like, Wow, this is all going wrong. And there may be months like that, but ultimately, I think you know, just having a bit of faith in yourself and just in the world. The world is a tough place is is just the right mindset to have. So failure sometimes, okay, it’s gonna happen.

27:48
Yeah, absolutely. I love that one on failure. I think failure is like the most underrated success propellant that you could ever have. I say to people, too, is like, I think every time there’s a failure, there’s, it’s a call to grow. There’s something you’re supposed to learn. There’s an opportunity. There’s some reason, like, do you ever notice that the same people show up in different guises over and over and over again, until you learn the lesson?

28:12
So yeah, and it seems cliche, right. But it’s so true. Because, you know, you learn from those standards, okay. Like, I wouldn’t do that. And usually, when I have something doesn’t go quite well, I’m always like, Okay, what three things do I learn? What am I not going to do next time? Yeah, what would I do differently? So I completely agree.

28:28
Yeah. And but that is the reason for it. I reckon, you know, it’s not about the success because you can’t enjoy success without failure. So I love that. So just to summarize, because I wrote them down. We have no yourself and be yourself. We have be okay with taking calculated risks. Don’t sweat the small stuff. You’re taught your tip on procrastination. So to do anything that will take you two to three minutes on your list, get checked off. And number five, be okay with failure. I love it. Yeah, amazing. So listen, we’re coming up to the end of the episode, I usually ask about the best piece of advice. I’m gonna do it to see if there’s anything else pop up. If you were to give my listeners, you know, the best piece of advice that you’ve ever received, what would it be?

29:09
It was really the don’t sweat the small stuff, because I still have a book and I still tell myself, I’m like, Okay, why are you getting so mad about this, this does not matter. At the end of the day, this is not matter. And it’s really, it’s really helped me and I think that’s the best piece of advice I’ve ever received.

29:24
Amazing, amazing. So Christine, where can people find you if they want to connect or learn more?

29:28
I’m on LinkedIn. And so please feel free to reach out to me. I’d love to connect with any of your listeners.

29:33
I mean anything so Listen, guys, as always, I will link Christine’s LinkedIn profile on the show notes. And Christine, you’ve been an absolutely amazing guest. I can’t wait to dive back into this episode and pull out some golden nuggets for my listeners. Thank you so much and have an absolutely fabulous day.

29:50
Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it.

29:53
What an amazing episode. I absolutely love Clint vincristine, what was so refreshing or somebody on her level is that she is so genuine, she came across super authentic. And we had such a laugh when we were off air, which is always so nice. So we’ve already kind of gone through the key takeaways for you there today, what I loved what she said about knowing yourself and just being yourself and being okay with failure. They were just such powerful, powerful with simple things. So if you are getting ready to progress in your career, and you are looking for some support, I will be delighted to be in your corner, just DM me the word career on Instagram or on LinkedIn or you can send me an email to Hello at Lucy garden.com. And we can have a chat and I can share how you can work with me and all the different options that you have based on how much success you’re looking to create and what problems you want to solve. So you can reach me at hello at Lucy kernan.com. Or if you just connect with me on Instagram or on LinkedIn, I love love, love, love love chatting with you in DMS and I would be happy to support you with giving you free resources or anything I have. Maybe there’s a podcast episode or something there that I can give you to help you accelerate that success. But if you are looking for a coach if you want somebody in your corner to be there to guide support hold you accountable to teach you I would love love, love to chat with you. So again, you can just DM me the word career and we can have a chat. So that’s Lucy garden on Instagram and Lucy garden and on LinkedIn. You will find all the links in the show notes. So that’s it for this week’s episode My dear. I hope you have a fabulous week to your continued success, balance and happiness. Until next time, take care bye for now.