ADHD, Confidence & Midlife: Real Talk for Women in Business with Katy McFee

Lucy Gernon (00:01.365)

Katie, good to see you.

 

Katy McFee (00:04.972)

It’s so good to see you, my friend.

 

Lucy Gernon (00:07.691)

Katie and I were chatting, was it Sunday night? I text Katie at like, stupid o’clock on Sunday evening going, I need to talk to you. Katie and I have been friends for a while, thank God that we have each other in business.

 

Katy McFee (00:21.154)

You know what, I think that that has been one of the things that I’m most grateful that I did was went out and found some women entrepreneur friends who are in the same boat as me because yeah, I think we’re like a bit of a lifeline. You’re one of the people I talk to the most even though you live like on the other side of the world. So I’m grateful for you. I’m super excited to be chatting today and like about all kinds of stuff.

 

Lucy Gernon (00:42.731)

So we’re going to do something different, right? So I have my podcast, The Lucy Garnon Show, which is a new show that nobody knows about. So don’t tell anybody yet because we’re recording this early. And Katie, your show is called More Women Promoted, right? So do you want to start by telling people why what we’re doing here and what we were talking about?

 

Katy McFee (00:51.288)

Okay.

 

Katy McFee (01:02.434)

Yeah. Okay. So yes, your show has been very business oriented as is mine, right? My podcast is all about helping more women get promoted. So it is very much like practical tips and frameworks. you’ve been, you’ve guessed it on my podcast. I’ve guessed it on your podcast. And I love that you came to me with this idea of having more of a conversation around just like life.

 

where we’re at, you know, our casual conversations are so fun, where we’re not necessarily talking about specific business stuff, but we’re just talking about like, what it’s like to be a woman in mid age, running a business or in corporate or whatever the thing is, but just like with all the stuff we have to work through and deal with. And yeah, I think.

 

we’re gonna have a lot of fun talking about some stuff that might be like business adjacent, might be career adjacent, but it’s gonna be like real life talk. And yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (02:04.755)

Yeah, absolutely. And I think as well, know, Kate and I were chatting about the fact that like Katie said, it is, we do talk a lot about business. My podcast is so serious a lot of the time. And I’m like, nobody’s really getting to see the fun that we have behind the scenes. So we have so many great conversations from everything from menopause to ADHD to inner critic to like childhood and like all of these things. So we just thought we’d have a conversation today on the show and just to see where it goes. So what was the first thing we were talking about?

 

Like actually, we just introduce ourselves in case you’re sharing with your people? sure. Let’s at least do that bit. So go for it. You go first.

 

Katy McFee (02:38.84)

True.

 

Okay. So I’m Katie McPhee. I’m a former exec. I was a VP and EVP in biotech and tech. And now I run a business called Insights to Action where I help women become VPs and really thrive in their roles because my big broad mission is to close the gender gap in senior leadership. So that’s my mission in life. That’s who I am what I do. How about you? Who are you?

 

Lucy Gernon (03:08.299)

It’s so funny that you say that because I’m also an executive coach, but I was not an executive. There’s a fun fact, but I did work in corporate leadership for a long time and I do not necessarily help women get promoted. Although it happens, I’m more about supporting women to lead up more confidence, really achieve their potential, but all that sacrificing themselves because that’s really what we were kind of going to talk about a lot today is as women, we.

 

Katy McFee (03:13.717)

Thank

 

Lucy Gernon (03:34.409)

I mean, Katie and I are so similar in so many ways, aren’t we? We’re high achievers. We like to be busy. We have kids, all of those things. And then sometimes you can get on the hamster wheel and you can really like, we’ll take care of the family. We’ll take care of the business. But like, do we really take care of ourselves? So that’s kind of what we were going to start to talk about today. That’s what I basically help women with. I have a company called 360 Need Hership. You see the her in the her hership? Because I’m the same as you. Like, I just want to have more women.

 

I believe that when we have more women in senior leadership, not just in senior leadership, but owning their voices at those tables and shape and culture, we can actually have a world where women can truly have it all in the sense of have the career, have the family. We don’t have to work 70 hours a week to be successful. Like those days are gone. I do think we’re starting to see that. So I think we kind of complement each other in that. But then behind the scenes, sometimes, you know, we don’t we need to follow our own advice. Don’t we, Kayden? For sure.

 

Katy McFee (04:31.79)

It’s like, I always say it’s so much easier to tell someone else what to do than you actually do it yourself. I coach a lot of high achieving women as well, talking about boundaries, talking about how like your worth is not attached to your accomplishments. And then here I am, something doesn’t go perfectly with me or if I don’t hit a milestone, like, let’s face it, we all fail all the freaking time. Okay, like I don’t care who you are. Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn.

 

And so, yeah, it’s like I need to give, I need to take my own advice, which is why I think we’re such good friends, because then we give each other the advice that we need to hear.

 

Lucy Gernon (05:11.353)

100%. And like, that’s the thing, like, I think sometimes people will look at coaches like us because that’s our message, right? Like we are, you know, we all have a message we put out into the world. That’s our like belief, that’s our mission, that’s our vision. But it doesn’t mean that we don’t need coaches. It doesn’t mean that we don’t need each other or tools because of course, I think we’re all human and everybody falls off the wagon along the way, right?

 

Katy McFee (05:34.828)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It’s like, and I think, I think, regardless of who you are, you can have, can be the most knowledgeable person in the world. can understand all of the mindset stuff and you’re still a messy human. Like you still have a brain. Like I think about some of the things that I know that, yes, I know these things and it is like a constant journey of reminding myself. It’s never done.

 

Lucy Gernon (06:03.654)

No, it’s never done. Never done. think if anyone ever says that, like I remember really like, you know, when Instagram first started this whole kind of social media phenomenon, not going to say TikTok because I’m not on TikTok, but anyway, side note. And I remember like seeing all of these big promises of, know, like, you know, you can change your life when you read this book or, you know, when I start my business, probably similar to you.

 

I was like, okay, if I just invest in this coach and like, you know, spend like 50 K my whole life is going to change. And what I realized was is you can get the best tools from so many different people, right? like it’s ultimately it’s on you. And like you said, we’re all human. We are all human and we all are a bit of a mess at the end of the day.

 

Katy McFee (06:34.891)

Yeah.

 

Katy McFee (06:51.98)

Yeah, well, and I think it’s really, I think the big thing that I’ve learned too is that, you and I’ve talked about this before on podcasts, is that doing the inner work is like the best thing you can do. Whether you’re a coach, whether you’re a corporate, whether you’re a business owner, like whether you’re stay at home mom, like it doesn’t actually matter, but really the work of understanding who you are as a person, what makes you tick, what some of your tendencies are.

 

It’s so fascinating to me. I know you love this stuff too. We both love it. Like what is your, you know, what is your personality type or like what is your enneagram or whatever the thing is. But like this stuff is really cool. Actually, we should talk about a couple of them. I think it’s kind of, I think we should dive into for just a sec because this stuff is just like so, to me it shines such a light. And once you really understand yourself, then you can choose. You can be like, how do I want to show up? Right? I always say one of my favorite lines is intellect overcomes preference.

 

All this stuff is prepper. You get choose at end of the day. So are you a Myers-Briggs person?

 

Lucy Gernon (07:48.991)

Mm.

 

Lucy Gernon (07:54.12)

Yeah, it’s been a long time since I’ve done it, but I think I remember my four letters.

 

Katy McFee (07:57.122)

You remember I’m EN, I’m an ENTJ. No, I’m an ENFJ. I just lied. ENFJ.

 

Lucy Gernon (08:00.956)

I think I’m an E. What’s the N? Feelings. I’m feelings as well. So remind me what they are and I’ll tell you. E is extrovert. I don’t know. I’m kind of like on the fence. I think I’m like borderline extrovert. The next one is…

 

Katy McFee (08:09.088)

Extra better introvert.

 

Katy McFee (08:14.264)

Okay. Intuitive or sensing. Intuitive is big picture thinker, like visionary. Sensing is like process driven, detail oriented. you’re S, I’m N.

 

Lucy Gernon (08:20.746)

Yeah, I messed as well. I messed or I. Interesting. Yeah, we’re both F’s and then J, which is the judging. Yeah. I think some of them, kind of border on a couple of them. It’s been so long since I’ve done it, and I think it depends on my mood as well. can kind of flip between. Honestly, sometimes this is why I think those personality

 

Katy McFee (08:26.222)

Mmm. And then we’re both apps.

 

and then J. We’re both FJs, but you might be an IS, an ISFJ.

 

Katy McFee (08:43.958)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (08:49.002)

tests are great, right? I think they’re indicative. But honestly, sometimes it depends on my mood, right? I can be the most introverted person and not want to speak to, I actually am quite introverted, which is ironic, but then I can be really extroverted. And then also in some senses, I am such a visionary, but then I also like detail. So that’s why sometimes with these personality tests, I think it’s like trying to, I’m kind of tired trying to label myself, put myself into a box.

 

Katy McFee (09:09.432)

Yeah.

 

Katy McFee (09:15.681)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (09:18.376)

You know, I just think that’s why one, you I know you do these assessments. said, we said we were going to get serious. Why are we getting serious? But mindset. This is all over. But I was going to say that I just.

 

Katy McFee (09:28.814)

The goal of the pigeonhole though, right? The goal of the pigeonhole, the goal is to like understand how do I better understand myself and what I need and even like how do I manage my team better? That’s how I think of it. So like, don’t actually care if it’s, not that I don’t care if it’s accurate, but you know what I mean? It’s like with Myers-Briggs, if you do it online, I think it’s only has a 75 % accuracy rate unless you go do the big whole thing. So it’s like, have to like grain of salt.

 

Lucy Gernon (09:51.307)

Yeah, that’s it. Like, and I think you do evolve. What do you think, though? Because I’ve definitely I think I’ve definitely evolved since I did it in corporate 20 years ago. That’s what I’m trying to remember. I did it recently myself, but it’s been so long.

 

Katy McFee (09:59.349)

Yeah!

 

Katy McFee (10:05.112)

So this is interesting. The first time I did the test was my very first job. And I came out as an ENFP. So a P type is not the like keeping lists 15 minutes early, but that’s J. P is like gathering more information and like a little more, right? Like it’s perceiver versus judge. But then every other time I’ve done it later, I was a J.

 

And so I’m like, don’t know if it was that it was inaccurate or, and this is maybe a good transition. I think that my ADHD and learning to create systems and hacks to like essentially survive with ADHD in the corporate space turned me into a J. Like I think I had to like build more of that. And so yes, I’m like crazy with my lists and my systems and my whatever.

 

but yeah, I don’t actually know what my, my like, quote, quote, true type would be if it weren’t for the constraints of like one, having ADHD to recognizing like, getting my shit done isn’t serving me. Like this isn’t helping me get promoted or whatever. Right. Like, and so I wonder how often we like actually adopt habits and like change ourselves to an extent in order to like achieve the goal.

 

Lucy Gernon (11:07.1)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (11:28.956)

Yeah, 100 percent. And like you just said it there, like you you change and evolve as the years go on and like you build systems or you grow and then you bring in some menopause into the mix and then you get older and more wiser or whatever they say, you know, but along the way. But going back to what you were saying about the mindset thing or the Myers-Briggs and all of those, you the enneagrams and all of those, I do think they’re really useful and I actually think they’re quite fun because I think we like to understand ourselves.

 

Katy McFee (11:35.821)

Yeah!

 

Lucy Gernon (11:57.259)

But the one thing I personally think is the more simple the better, which is why I love the saboteurs, right? And I know you do all this stuff as well because it’s so simple and your saboteurs, my saboteurs have never changed. They just come up in different frequencies. So when we talk about saboteurs, I thought this was supposed to be light and fun and we’re in mindset, but let’s go. Here we go.

 

Katy McFee (12:16.014)

Yes. I know this is gonna be light and fun. So tell me the things that make you hate yourself. Light and fun.

 

Lucy Gernon (12:24.17)

I’m a high achiever, that’s a good thing. Sometimes it’s not. I’m a perfectionist. Not such a good thing, you know.

 

Katy McFee (12:33.644)

I know, I know. The interesting, like the fascinating thing about saboteurs is we are attached to them, right? Like I think I’ve told you this before. I’ve told this story before that when I initially did the positive intelligence assessment and my top saboteur was hyperachiever, I was like, sweet, I got the best one. Like, what does that say? And then when I read through like the dark side of that, which is, you know,

 

Lucy Gernon (12:53.972)

Why was the same?

 

Katy McFee (13:00.79)

tying all your self-worth to your accomplishments and thinking you’re not worthy if you’re not achieving all those things. was like, yeah, I guess there is some dark side to that.

 

Lucy Gernon (13:09.276)

Yeah, and I think that can be so if anyone doesn’t know what we’re talking about, if you go to positiveintelligence.com, we are not being sponsored sponsored by this, but we probably should be. You can do a pre-assessment where you can find out what your saboteurs are, which is always kind of inner critic, negative self-talk voices, and it explains like where they came from. And it helps you understand a lot more about those. Yeah, those things that you might think are good things. like you, you know, I was the same high achiever perfection, like the stickler, which is like perfectionism. And I can’t remember

 

Katy McFee (13:37.346)

Yep. Mine’s sticker too.

 

Lucy Gernon (13:38.984)

Restless. Restless is another one. I’m still the same. I cannot sit still. They’re my top three. no way. my God.

 

Katy McFee (13:44.268)

Those are my top three. Those are literally my top three. I’ve never met someone with the same top three as me. That’s so fascinating. Yeah, those are my top three. Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (13:50.399)

Yeah. Yeah. But they change, they’ve changed. Like, I think once you’re aware of them, so basically they’re the things that help you become who you are and they’ve driven your success, but they also sabotage you because they’re kind of linked to your, I there’s your sense of self and they end up, you know, bringing in overworking and all of those things. So actually being able to learn to control them, which I think you and I have done a good, we’re quite good with the self care these days. So do you want to share maybe with some, people that are listening?

 

Katy McFee (14:09.368)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (14:20.946)

around controlling that, like the little rituals that you do. And I can share some rituals that I do to take care of ourselves.

 

Katy McFee (14:26.382)

Yeah, for sure. I have become so much more intentional about boundaries. I think back to when I was climbing the corporate ladder and I was not really, what do say, like intentional about the way I took care of myself? My life looked very different. was like drinking a bottle of wine every night and like my morning was a shit show and all the things. Now it looks like very intentional morning routine.

 

best things that I have done to help to manage my late diagnosed ADHD. So I exercise in the morning, I meditate in the morning. Those are the two big ones. And that really kind of helped me to show up as the person I want to be.

 

Lucy Gernon (15:12.712)

Here’s a question. I’m jumping over you, but do you think you’d still be doing that if you were in corporate?

 

Katy McFee (15:19.66)

I would say it depends on if I were still in corporate and I had still been exposed to like some of the coaching concepts in the coaching world that I was exposed to, then maybe yes. But when I was in corporate, like it was only at the very end that I, bless you, I had an executive coach, but my executive coach was more…

 

performance-based, like we didn’t do a lot of self-discovery stuff. There was no woo. There was no woo. This was like a dude, like, who was like, I don’t actually know if he, I don’t think he was a certified coach. And so I only became aware of like true, like, like sort of ICF coaching at the very end of my corporate career. And then I ended up leaving. So had I, let’s like, let’s say I had learned all of that.

 

Lucy Gernon (15:49.982)

Really?

 

Katy McFee (16:13.772)

and then stayed in corporate, then probably yes. Because I was at a breaking point. I was like, this life is no longer serving me. I was like, I don’t know what needs to change, but it certainly cannot stay the same. So it’s really hard to say, but I would say I was at a point where I was recognizing, and I think it was partly the age I was getting to and probably my ADHD symptoms getting a little bit worse, mixed with a little, throwing a little burnout, throwing a little unhealthy living, and it was just like, it was no longer sustainable.

 

I was in a really rough place. And so that is where my change came from. Like I kind of had to go through a really tough time to come out the other side and then create an intentional life. Right? So I don’t, yeah. What about you?

 

Lucy Gernon (16:55.594)

Mm, yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (16:59.882)

No, I’m just, the reason I’m saying that is Katie voice notes me like in the mornings from her treadmill. And I’m always like, I wish I had her discipline. Like I have a personal trainer and I go to, I started yoga actually. I literally woke up on Sunday morning and I felt really overwhelmed. just felt really, you know, in your energy, I think, okay, so Katie and I both have ADHD and we’re both in very menopause. So.

 

Katy McFee (17:24.654)

you

 

Lucy Gernon (17:27.818)

You know, there’s a bit of a cocktail going on there. Just in case you like wait to Katie’s. We both have quite similar things going on, but I’m on medication. Katie’s not. So Katie manages through your morning routine. I know it’s super important for you, whereas I’m providing the medication is doing really great for me, but I still take care of myself. long story short, I woke up on Sunday morning and I was just like, my God, I cannot face this week. I just felt really overwhelmed. I had my three kids were sick all week.

 

one of my right hand woman was out sick. We’re in the middle of preparing for a big launch. I was having team performance issues with miscommunications. It was like the worst possible week from everything that could go wrong, you know, when you’re with your team and like everything is going wrong. And then at home and I was like, my God, this is shit show. So I woke up on Sunday morning at like seven or something or half seven a.m. or something. And I lay in bed and it was really dark and dreary out and it was raining and I was just like, I just can’t do it this day.

 

And then I went, I really need to do something. And I didn’t want to go to the gym. So I said, I’m just going to Google like, is there a yoga class? And I found a yoga class. And in Ireland, you know, it’s not as big as your city and stuff. I was surprised. So anyway, long story short, went to yoga on Sunday morning and it’s now my new thing. Now I’ve been once, but it’s going to be my new thing. On a Sunday.

 

Katy McFee (18:45.118)

Love it. I’m doing yoga once a week on either Saturday or Sunday too. I’ve just added that back into my routine. You know what it is? I decided this year as like, want to go to yoga and I want to go with a friend. And I’m like, no, I don’t have any good friends that live like right in my neighborhood who would do that with me. And so I reached out to one of my high school friends who I absolutely adore. And I was like, I want to see more of you this year. This is something I’m trying to do more of is I can reach out to the people I want to talk to more and tell them.

 

Lucy Gernon (18:50.147)

my god, stop it. You’re just copying me. I think you’re just like stalking me. I’m copying you.

 

Lucy Gernon (19:00.201)

Katy McFee (19:15.214)

I want to see you more. want to talk to you more, like save the thing that we’re thinking. And so I was like, do you want to go for a walk or go to yoga or whatever? And so we ended up working out that I was going to go to her yoga studio. It’s kind of halfway from from our houses and we went one week and I loved it. And so I went back the next week. And so now I think we’re going to try to do it most most weekends that we’re both around. But then I get a little bit of that, like my cups full because I get to see my friend and I’m doing yoga, which is as you leave you just feel so

 

physically, mentally good, I find when I think of that. Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (19:47.627)

my God, that’s, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s so, good. Like I hadn’t done yoga and I’ve done it many times on retreats and things. do this, it was called like Hatha yoga, I think. So there was a lot of meditation. There was a lot of connecting inwards. There was all of the things. I was like, sign me up. So I’m doing that on Sunday. And then on a Monday, I’m doing this dance class. It’s called Dance Yourself Fit, but they do everything from waltz to Samba to Mambo to Cha Cha to hip hop. Every week there’s a different theme.

 

Katy McFee (19:57.752)

Okay, yeah.

 

Katy McFee (20:03.31)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (20:17.576)

And it’s just middle-aged women in a ballroom, absolutists sweating buckets for an hour. And it’s just so fun because my work for this year is fun. I’ve just been so busy like you. And I was like, no, I to have more fun. That’s how I’m managing it. And then I go to, have a personal trainer. go twice a week. So it’s so funny. Like, I feel like I’ve become that person that I wanted to be. Like, as I’m hearing myself say that I’m like, I always wanted to be the person who had a personal trainer who went to the gym, who did that. And I just.

 

Katy McFee (20:23.028)

Yeah.

 

Katy McFee (20:29.966)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (20:46.74)

couldn’t seem to get myself away from nomming with wine and like food and things and now I feel like I’m in a good place but I’m still a bit crazy. Am I great?

 

Katy McFee (20:55.488)

I that. I know you’re like, I wish I your discipline and like, you’re like, okay, and so I work out every day. You do have it. Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (21:00.938)

Yeah, but you can do that at home. No, but I need accountability, right? I cannot. I’ve tried so many times. I did it during COVID, but I kind of, like knowing I’m meeting my sister to go to the, whatever, the dance class. I have my PT.

 

Katy McFee (21:15.714)

You need that external accountability. that’s if you’ve said not to go back to personality assessments, but if you’re familiar with the four tendencies, do you know that one, Gretchen Rubin? So there’s the obliger is the one where you’ll do everything for everyone else, but you don’t meet. So it’s how you meet external expectations and how you meet internal. And so obligers meet external, but not internal.

 

Lucy Gernon (21:17.599)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (21:21.524)

Go for it!

 

Yeah, think you’ve told me about this one. Remind me them.

 

Lucy Gernon (21:38.921)

Okay.

 

Lucy Gernon (21:43.924)

Right.

 

Katy McFee (21:44.077)

And questioners are the opposite. They’ll do it if they feel that they think it makes sense, but they’ll resist external. I am an upholder, so I meet both. So that’s not common, but like for me, I always say like bias for action is not my problem. Like I will do the thing. I will do the hard thing every single day as much as it sucks. It’s just like, it’s just in me. I joke, I’m like, I can eat a lot of shit. Like I’ll just do the shitty thing over and over and over again.

 

Because for me, I actually would love to go to a gym and go work out outside of my house every day. But with the way my life is right now, as you know, I have a five year old, which was not the plan, but here he is and I love him. But I have a five year old and two other kids and a couple of dogs and business and everything. I just don’t have the space currently in the way my business and life is set up to work outside of my home because I feel like…

 

Lucy Gernon (22:41.962)

But you don’t need to, if you’re able to hold yourself accountable. No, if you’re able to, I just wasn’t. And I think I was just on a stage where I was like, I kept saying I didn’t have time. Okay. So classic, well, you know, my clients tell me I don’t have time. And then I looked at my husband said to me, he was like, just get up earlier. And I was like, no, I like my sleep. I’m not, I wasn’t really an early riser and he was always up like 5.30, 6 a.m.

 

Katy McFee (22:44.844)

Yeah, it’s just not as fun.

 

Katy McFee (22:53.23)

you

 

Lucy Gernon (23:08.618)

And then I went, you know what, like when I looked at my schedule, like you, I have clients all over the world, have team all over the world. I have a chunk of time there in my day where I’m working. And then I have kids in the evening and they have activities. And I was kind of looking at the end of my day going, it just doesn’t usually work for me to want to go to the gym at that time with my kids and everything. And then I went, okay, what if I look for a class or what if I found somebody who could train me while my kids were asleep?

 

so that when they get up, I can still take them to school. And that’s what I’ve done. So I go to the gym at 6.45 a.m. I’m back home by 7.45. My kids are older now, see, so they can kind of get themselves ready. And then we leave up just before 8.30 and then I start my day. My work day doesn’t start till 10 a.m. So it feels really good that I’ve been able to build that in, in my life. And it’s just paid dividends in terms of my mental well-being and my physical health as well.

 

Katy McFee (24:03.788)

Yeah, I’m with you. actually think my morning routine, it’s one of those things where it’s becoming non-negotiable. And actually, I will say, people will be like, that’s so amazing that you do that. But I would say getting my ADHD diagnosis is part of what allowed me to give myself permission to prioritize that and to ask my husband, my now husband, to support me in that. Because before I felt, I actually felt guilty.

 

Right? Like, you know, I was like, well, I should be with the baby and I should be whatever. But then what I noticed was that, like, when he wanted to go work out, he would just go work out. Like, he was just like, I’m going to work out. And I was like, he doesn’t care. He’s just going to work out when he’s going to work out. And here I am, like, hemming and hawing and like, should I say not, whatever. And then I don’t do it. And then I feel not very good. And I’m like, and then I kind of beating myself up. I’m like, what if I just said, this is important to me. I need this time to show up as

 

Lucy Gernon (24:33.844)

yeah.

 

Katy McFee (25:03.522)

the version of me I want to be, will you support it? So I did that and he was like, sure. Like, it was like no problem. It took me like two years to ask. He’s like, yeah, okay.

 

Lucy Gernon (25:08.702)

Yeah, like, of course.

 

I know, we make this thing, it had to be like a huge thing in our head and it’s like, yeah, okay. I was the same, I was the same with my kids. was like, I can’t leave my kids to get ready for school. Like one is 18, by the way, and the other is almost 14. And then the other is.

 

Katy McFee (25:15.47)

He’s like, yeah, okay. And so now…

 

Katy McFee (25:27.156)

They can’t get trust for school, we got bigger problems.

 

Lucy Gernon (25:29.876)

Well, the 10 year old is actually more bloody. She’s more responsible than them. So I wasn’t actually worried about her. was the older ones. I was like, I can. have to be there in the morning. And then I was like, but what about me? Like, what about where am I finding time in my day for me? You you give to your clients, you give to your your team, you solve all the problems you like. I don’t know. I love to cook as well. So, you know, I try. Yeah. Well, I stopped in quarter four because I kind of almost burned out, but I’m back doing it again.

 

Katy McFee (25:33.6)

Yeah.

 

Katy McFee (25:41.197)

Katy McFee (25:51.374)

Thank you.

 

Lucy Gernon (25:57.003)

And I was like, do a lot for this bloody family. So yeah, it’s OK to take care of ourselves. So go girls.

 

Katy McFee (26:02.424)

Hells yeah. I mean, like, it’s not even just okay. It’s like you show up as a better, I don’t know about you, I show up as a better mom, a better version of myself. And I mean, hey, there’s some days that I’m getting my morning routine. Like just so I’m painting the picture, if anyone is listening, they’re like, wow, she gets this like beautiful morning to herself. There have been moments, there have been workouts where I’ve been in the gym in my basement. All three kids and our golden retriever have been in there with me. you know, I’m getting it done.

 

Lucy Gernon (26:09.738)

So much.

 

Katy McFee (26:30.382)

It’s not quite the vision I had in my mind, but like, you know, so sometimes it looks like me getting this workout to myself. Sometimes it looks like my five-year-old in there, you know, talking my ear off for the entire time and all of it is fine, right? It’s like, like, it’s gonna look a little bit different and I’m actually a-okay with that. I’m so grateful that I get to spend that time and focus on my health and like feel good. And so sometimes if I have to do it with a dog or a kid on me, I’m like, okay, that’s fine.

 

Lucy Gernon (26:44.137)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (26:58.92)

Yeah, and I think as well, like it’s such a good example you’re setting for your children, because sometimes you forget that because when I go to my gym in my personal trainer, I’m lucky that in the school holidays, she allows me to bring Kate. So Kate was like nine last summer and Kate used to come in her workout gear and like she’d come and workout with me. And she loved that. then my eldest boy, who I really didn’t think I would inspire him.

 

Katy McFee (27:03.757)

No.

 

Lucy Gernon (27:25.16)

He told me that because I was going to the gym, you know, kind of he was like, well, if you can kind of go early in the morning, maybe I can start going in the morning. And it’s just it’s actually just setting a really positive example. Whereas if I look at who I was years ago, especially in corporate, I was like, I was like, give me the wine because I cannot regulate myself. I’m so stressed. I didn’t exercise consistently. And literally wine was the way like I numbed my stress. It was.

 

Katy McFee (27:46.029)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (27:53.323)

not like seven days a week, like definitely Friday and Saturday night, or if I had a really stressful day, I’d be home and having a glass of wine. And now I actually have broken that habit. You won’t even believe me in LA. don’t even think I, yeah, I’ve really broken in the last months for sure.

 

Katy McFee (28:08.246)

Yeah, yeah, if you had met Taylor jokes that he’s like, this was not the Katie I met. It’s like the Katie I met party. It was super fun, stayed up late. And, and yeah, so I feel you. It’s the same thing. And I would say I was even, I was at the point, I’d also, I was a single mom for a while and like there was just a lot of, a lot of pressure and a lot of stress. And I had undiagnosed ADHD. And so I, which I didn’t even know that I had, I just knew that like,

 

life was really freaking hard. And so for me, was, you know, coffee in the morning, wine at night. Like this, this was, I was just self-medicating with coffee and wine. And you know, for a while, I mean, I hanging on by a thread, but it was doing okay. I mean, I had a successful career, but I think this is a big reason that I, that I burnt out. And I would say like, this is, this is a story that, because for people who know me now, like I basically, as you know, almost never drink. It’s very rare that you see me drinking.

 

but I would be driving home from work and I would have to get there for childcare and I’d be like, shoot, there’s no wine in the house. This is on a random Wednesday. This was literally every day. We see, I’m not even kidding. And I would, I would stop at the liquor store to get wine. Cause I would need, I’d be like, I just need at least one glass of wine. I feel like that was the habit that I was in. And I was, I don’t think I was physically dependent, but I had created, there was so much habitual, like it was the, it was the mindset around. felt like that was my permission to relax or.

 

Lucy Gernon (29:16.043)

really, okay.

 

Katy McFee (29:35.906)

You know what I mean? Like let the stress of the day go. And so that’s what I was gonna say, quote, like addicted to, but like I just wanted that ability to like, kind of like relax and let go. And so I had to think about, okay, what does my ritual look like now? It’s not gonna be that, right? And maybe now it’s cooking dinner or now, now actually, know what one of the things is? I changed my clothes. Like, so I dress for work, even though, even if I work at home, even if I don’t have clients or whatever, I get dressed for work.

 

Lucy Gernon (29:57.468)

What?

 

Lucy Gernon (30:00.971)

Mm-hmm.

 

Katy McFee (30:05.422)

I wear jeans or a sweater or a blazer or whatever. And then at the end of the day, my transition is I say, I’m gonna go put on my play clothes. This is what I say to Thomas. And I go put on like a jogging suit or like leggings. And like, that is my transition to turn it off as opposed to pouring a glass of wine. So funny.

 

Lucy Gernon (30:20.206)

yeah, I love that. That is so good. That is so, good. God, I mean, imagine if we hadn’t met years ago. We would have had such fun if we both drank.

 

Katy McFee (30:24.407)

Yeah.

 

Katy McFee (30:30.958)

I wish you met old Katie. She was so fun. Trainwreck, but fun.

 

Lucy Gernon (30:35.608)

my goodness. It was so funny. When we were in LA, do remember the night we were out for dinner and I ended up really sick that night and you were there the one night you were going to have, you were going to have wine and you were like, I’m having a glass of wine, please stay. And I was like, I got, I put the bad migraine. What else are we going to talk about? ADHD, right? So let’s talk about ADHD for a second, because I feel like it’s a conversation that needs to be had.

 

Katy McFee (30:48.642)

I know.

 

Katy McFee (30:57.197)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (31:00.486)

I have combined ADHD, which means I struggle a lot with focus, concentration, and then I also have the impulsivity side. like, I interrupt a lot. Like, I don’t think you do that. I interrupt a lot because I’m like, shut up. I just can’t help it. And then my sister is like, you can’t help it. You just have to like train yourself. I’m like, fuck off. can’t.

 

Katy McFee (31:23.032)

Okay, so Taylor and I, don’t really have a fight, but that has been a fight we’ve had. Because I’m also, so I’m also combination. When I was diagnosed with…

 

Lucy Gernon (31:31.276)

You don’t interrupt me though, I feel like I interrupt you a lot.

 

Katy McFee (31:34.634)

it? No, I don’t. don’t. Well, if you do, I don’t notice that probably because we’re the same. I literally don’t notice.

 

Lucy Gernon (31:38.826)

Because you’re thinking about something else looking out the window, what?

 

Katy McFee (31:44.91)

Like, I don’t know. It’s just like that reframe of it’s often because we’re excited or it’s because we want to relate or whatever. Like, it’s not true, like interrupting. We’re not trying to be rude. But yeah, no, no, I’ve had trouble with that. And I’ve tried to become really conscious of it because of that, because Taylor was like, can you stop interrupting me? I was like, and then I got rejected for rejection, sensitivity and dysphoria. I’m like, he hates me.

 

Lucy Gernon (32:07.726)

of course, the God love us. But even I think that, know, with your team, like I would hear this a lot from some of my clients as well. I’m sure you hear exactly the same thing when they’re in a meeting with somebody and somebody speaks over them and interrupts them and they take it to heart. And sometimes I’m like, could this person be neurodivergent? Because I certainly can own up and say when I get excited or I know the answer, I cannot sit there and

 

Katy McFee (32:22.158)

I

 

Lucy Gernon (32:35.284)

Don’t give me all of the detail. I need executive summary, high level, and then I’ll ask for information. Whereas if I’m sitting there with somebody and they’re telling me their whole story, like my husband is, he’s a real detailed person and he works, his brain works the total opposite of mine. So instead of just asking me or telling me the punchline, I have to wait for the story. I do not cope very well with that. Do you?

 

Katy McFee (32:55.726)

No, I can’t do it. I can’t do it. And I’ll even be physically moving in my chair. I mean, when I was East Fundings when I was diagnosed, because I was fully gaslighting myself, I was like, I probably don’t even have ADHD. I’m just using this as an excuse because I’m such a shitshow. And then the woman’s like, oh, you pretty much meet every criteria in both categories.

 

Lucy Gernon (33:03.498)

Thanks.

 

Lucy Gernon (33:18.378)

I was the same! Katie! I think it was like 20 to 24 and I made like 22 in both. I was exactly the same.

 

Katy McFee (33:24.684)

Like it was, I don’t even know what the ones that I don’t meet, but, and I can remember, I remember getting on a call with this woman. She was like, she’s a coach and, and she wanted to like film something. And she was like, you’re moving in your chair. And I was like, yeah, I have ADHD. move. Like I was just like, I’m no one, cause I used to feel so shameful and whatever around the fact, all of these things. And now I’m just like, yeah, I have ADHD. I fucking move a lot. I’m sorry. Now I’m getting, now I’m getting a little, a little spicy.

 

Lucy Gernon (33:46.174)

you too.

 

Lucy Gernon (33:53.104)

I was the same like growing up. was always told, you know, like even now you’re going to say I cannot sit still. And this is me on medication, right? like growing up, I was always told to sit still and be quiet. And I remember I remember when I was I used to serve mass like so I’m like in Catholic art. used to serve to do stuff. I think we did talk about this before. Did you actually? This is like I cannot deal. You’re like my Canadian double banger.

 

Katy McFee (33:58.926)

Yeah.

 

Katy McFee (34:14.828)

Yeah, I just, yeah.

 

know, we’re double.

 

Lucy Gernon (34:20.373)

taller, more fit, more beautiful. But I remember being told to sit still and I had to like ring the bell and I developed this twitch in my eye because my body like I was like literally like this and I used to do my husband laughs. I used to go like this because like it was like a nervous thing. Like I used to suck in breath because I couldn’t. I used to get the nuns like really.

 

Katy McFee (34:22.7)

Parallel Lives.

 

Katy McFee (34:43.63)

Your energy had to go somewhere. You know what I do? I use stuff like this. I like, like I use, have like fidget toys at my desk so that when I’m on a call, I can like play with it and seemingly be composed because otherwise I’m just moving and fidgeting constantly in my chair.

 

Lucy Gernon (34:50.859)

Squishing.

 

Lucy Gernon (35:06.635)

I have my crystals on my, you should do that. Let’s see who moves first.

 

Katy McFee (35:09.038)

I’ve got crystals around my distant… You can’t tell, but I’m fidgeting.

 

Lucy Gernon (35:16.994)

It’s definitely, you lost. Yes, I actually beat you at something. I love it. What else then? But yeah, ADHD is real, right? And I think something that we need to talk about is, I don’t know about you, but when I got my, when my, it was actually my friend said to me, right, this is like vulnerable now that I’m going to say this, but I’ve lost a lot of friends over the years. And when I say lost a lot of friends, like, you you grow and evolve as people.

 

Katy McFee (35:21.422)

Lucy Gernon (35:45.1)

Well, I’m the kind of person that when you’re my friend, like I love and I love hard and like you’re in my I don’t let many people in if you’re in my world like you’re lucky. OK, but if you’re in my world, like I take that seriously and I just I just always thought that if you’re friends with somebody, you’re friends forever because I’m very loyal. I think that’s it. I’m quite a loyal person. And I.

 

Katy McFee (35:45.26)

Mm-hmm.

 

Lucy Gernon (36:06.463)

You know, was going through all this stuff for years with it not knowing I had ADHD, which I was diagnosed with as well last year. Like we’re on such a similar journey. And my friend, I was in Poland actually at the Christmas markets with my friend like two or three Christmases ago. And I brought this up with her and I was kind of saying to her around the fact that like, I don’t really feel like people like me and like.

 

You know, I don’t really have a lot of friends, but if I really look at my friendships, like, do I make the effort? No, probably I don’t. And it’s a two way thing. And she said to me, like, do you think it’s because of the ADHD? Do you think you might maybe have ADHD? I was like, hmm. And I honestly thought that that was for people who were like crazy, like, honestly, like I wasn’t. obviously we think we’re normal, but probably not. But I was like.

 

Katy McFee (36:57.102)

You

 

Lucy Gernon (36:57.963)

So she got me did we were sitting in a restaurant in the middle of the square. I remember the name of the square in Krakow with like the Christmas trees and all the light and the yeah, the snow and all of this. And I was drinking wine at the time. And we were doing this obviously non-validated assessment. And I was really I was doing it like, yes, yes, yes, yes. I was like, you most likely have ADHD. I was like, oh, come on. Everybody like moves a lot and everybody talks and everybody like feels rejected on different markers like anyway.

 

Katy McFee (37:05.015)

I’ve been there.

 

Katy McFee (37:23.746)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (37:26.709)

So then I decided I’d book in for an assessment, but there’s like a two year waiting list in Ireland. And this was to like pay privately. And when I went and he told me I did the screening assessment where I had to look at a screen for 20 minutes and like press a button to do that one with the red dots. So I did a screening assessment where they, I didn’t realize they were watching me through a window that I had to come in here and like press a button every time I saw this red flash. They said like my body, I was actually like,

 

I couldn’t focus. was looking at the window after like two minutes. And I was like, but surely nobody would enjoy that. And they were like, no, but you, your body was like shaken after like, you know, 10 seconds. You just did not sit for the entire time. That was one of the tests they did and obviously did more. But when they told me, he was like, yeah, I can confirm you. You, definitely, yeah, you definitely have it.

 

and potentially on the the autistic side as well. There might be a little bit some of that there as well, because that’s definitely my family. Like I burst into tears because I just wanted to be normal. But then I also knew I had it, but it was a really surreal moment to kind of get the diagnosis. What about you?

 

Katy McFee (38:39.466)

Mm-hmm. So it’s so funny because for me, it was similar in the sense that it was a friend who told, like, who mentioned to me that she thought I had ADHD. So this was, she’s actually a friend of a friend. was doing my hair. She came to my house to do my hair during the pandemic. And she was a former social worker and then she had burnt out and she became a hairdresser and her daughter had been diagnosed with ADHD and she knew ADHD pretty well. And

 

I must have said something in passing like, yeah, maybe I have a little ADHD or something like that when she was doing my hair. And so we were talking for a couple of hours and when she was leaving, I was saying goodbye to her at the door and I was like, so good to see you, whatever. And she goes, so good to see you. Oh, also you 100 % have ADHD. And I was like, what? She’s like, yeah, you definitely have ADHD. And so like that was kind of felt.

 

like a bit of a shock to me because I think I had said that before, but I didn’t really necessarily believe that I did. Like it was just one of those things. don’t, you know, obviously on some level I must’ve thought that I did because I would say stuff like, probably a little ADHD. But I didn’t really think I was like diagnosable. And so then I started to think about, started just to be like, okay, do I pursue a diagnosis? Like, what do I want to do here? And I started kind of like listening to some podcasts and doing, looking online.

 

And then I also pursued like a diagnosis and sure enough, like I was diagnosed and I also went like had a very emotional reaction, partly because like I was thinking like, I wasn’t like thought a lot about like the what ifs. Like I’m like, I spent so much of my life carrying around so much shame for behaviors that were largely out of my control.

 

Lucy Gernon (40:26.463)

Yeah.

 

Katy McFee (40:32.722)

And it makes me emotional to even think about it now, right? To like how much of my life I beat myself up and I shamed myself for running 15 minutes late or doing whatever. And I just didn’t have the tools. And so yeah, it was like I had to almost go through this process of like maybe grieving or just like accepting. I did find it pretty emotional. But then as I did that,

 

Lucy Gernon (40:56.875)

Like, you know, you say you get emotional. If I was to say that now, I would literally be in tears. Like I was recording podcast today. I get really choked up and I cannot stop it. And it’s called flooding. And we’ve talked about it before. I’ve never seen you actually quiver. I’m like, why don’t you quiver like I quiver, please? Because I feel less shame. Okay.

 

Katy McFee (41:07.278)

I hate it!

 

Katy McFee (41:15.114)

me my eyes well up and it happens and it doesn’t even always happen when I’m emotional like sometimes it happens when I’m like like maybe I care or whatever I’m not actually feeling that emotional but then like my eyes will like water and I’m like the person I talk to is gonna think I’m crying I’m like I’m not crying so we’re clear I’m okay

 

Lucy Gernon (41:34.271)

My lip, I’m sorry, your, my, I go like this. Sorry, like my mouth goes, I would take, I would take tears in my eyes all day long. My mouth literally drops and I just go.

 

Katy McFee (41:45.708)

Okay, I don’t I don’t do the quiver I just do the eyes

 

Lucy Gernon (41:48.936)

something really emotional and I’ll show you. It’s like, it’s so embarrassing. I remember being in my boss one day and he’s like, total analytical head, not a sniff of emotion in the man’s body. And like, he asked me a question and it started to happen and he was just looking at me. was like, please don’t murder me. Just before I knew, I was like, it’ll stop in a minute because I just couldn’t control it. And then I met my husband and we were having an argument and I was, you know, emotional, upset.

 

Katy McFee (41:59.04)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (42:14.635)

It would start and he used to say, oh, you’re just doing that thing again to, you know, like, get yourself. Yeah, like, I was like, I’m actually not. I took I swear it must have taken him almost like we’re together. A long time, we’re together, 20, 21 years or something like that, but it must have taken him at least, I’d say, 18 years to realize, OK, she’s actually telling the truth. Like. I swear, I’m such a I used to come and such a baby. Well, anyway, I have to do where are we?

 

Katy McFee (42:18.998)

Make him feel bad?

 

Katy McFee (42:34.51)

It’s been 13 years.

 

Katy McFee (42:43.063)

I don’t remember, but.

 

Yeah, where were we? Where were we? I don’t remember. like, yeah, no, just just just the idea that like, think it’s, think getting a diagnosis for anyone who is unsure whether they have ADHD or not, like, I think getting a diagnosis is also so freeing and and allows you to start like start that self acceptance. And so like, even even just for that, I just think it’s so powerful to like, be able to, yeah, like give yourself a break and be like, this was not my fault. And I think I even think about like,

 

Lucy Gernon (43:08.649)

Yeah.

 

Katy McFee (43:16.024)

I was a teenager, I was very impulsive. I did a lot of reckless stuff, know, teenagehood, early adulthood. And now I’m like, this was clearly undiagnosed ADHD. Like it’s so, it’s clear as day to me now.

 

Lucy Gernon (43:27.019)

Hmm.

 

What do say to people like, because I don’t know, is it the same in Canada, but definitely in Ireland, there’s a narrative of, everybody has a little bit of something. the other thing that as well, it was actually my sister asked me, she said, like, why do you why do you want to do this? Like, would you go on medication? And at the time, I was absolutely opposed to medication. Like I just I wouldn’t take if I have a headache, I find it difficult to take something. So I was like, no. she said, why would you bother spending like, you know, it costs a couple of thousand to kind of get diagnosed and things to go through the process.

 

Katy McFee (43:37.206)

yeah.

 

Katy McFee (43:53.091)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (44:00.012)

What’s like, what are going to get from it? I said, like acceptance, like self understanding myself to like, I think when you have ADHD and I believe it’s the same for people who are neurodivergent in all spectrums pretty much like you beat yourself up a lot. There’s this the RSD thing, the rejection sensitivity, dysmorphia or disorder, whichever way you want to call it, which is you do feel rejection so much more because you’ve been corrected more than the average child.

 

Katy McFee (44:26.125)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (44:29.727)

There’s so much data out there that shows that kids who have ADHD are corrected. Something like, I think they have like 700 % more rejections in their child or something.

 

Katy McFee (44:38.924)

It’s 20, they get 20,000 additional negative messages. 20,000.

 

Lucy Gernon (44:44.075)

Yeah, crazy, but because they’re doing things that normal kids don’t do. So when you’re forming your beliefs about yourself as a kid, you just think, thought I was really annoying. I thought I still think I’m really annoying. I am a bit annoying, but then I also think I’m good in some other ways. You know, you don’t know.

 

Katy McFee (44:57.112)

Thank

 

Katy McFee (45:03.724)

You’re the best. No, that is my secret fear is that people think I’m annoying and don’t like me. Like, you we all have like our deep secret fears. That is mine is like people think I’m annoying. People don’t like me. And it is all absolutely rooted in ADHD.

 

Lucy Gernon (45:08.745)

my god.

 

Lucy Gernon (45:19.071)

Yeah, it’s wild. It’s wild. And I think for a lot of the women that we work with as well, a lot of them are come to me and they, you know, we do a lot in time management, prioritization, delegation, all of that. But because my mother was so strict growing up, like she was like, she ran the house like in a good way, like a military sergeant. There was a lot of structure. There was a lot of boundaries. She, you know, she really…

 

showed me how to organize things and honestly without her I wouldn’t genuinely wouldn’t have survived. But because of that and then because I went into science as did you, which is also just wild. I learned a lot of structure through the scientific field as well, which really, really helped me. So I think because of all of that with me, I’m actually, believe it or not, I’m not a bit, very structured in a way that I have a lot of systems in place. Does it mean I don’t use them all the time?

 

I don’t have hundreds of to do lists, but I have systems in place to like support me in terms of what my priorities are. And I feel like that’s been an absolute game changer. Whereas a lot of women that I work with before they start working with me and then I share, like, for example, I have my firefighting to freedom playbook. There’s 10 rules in it that I live and die by, just 10 systems. And it’s like they just no one’s taught them these kind of things before. And sometimes we think things we do like your morning routine is just it’s just so

 

like synonymous with who you are, don’t even think it’s a big deal or what other people can really benefit from, like we all benefit from learning from each other, don’t we?

 

Katy McFee (46:51.47)

Well, yeah. And so the interesting thing, I don’t know if you found this and what a blessing that your mother ran your house that way, because my house was not like that. So it’s like probably because at least one of my parents had ADHD as well. But and so what I realized when I was diagnosed and I started to look up just hacks for managing her ADHD and for and for living life successfully with ADHD, I realized that like I had actually created a lot of those in my life already.

 

out of necessity. And so it’s interesting when women come work with me, same thing. like, I’ve got all these systems and hacks and things. And for, I think they’re valuable for either people who are neurodivergent or who are neurotypical because oftentimes systems are helpful for anyone. But like people like you and I created them out of like freaking sheer necessity. Survival, absolutely. like, and now they’re, yeah, they’re.

 

Lucy Gernon (47:40.873)

Survival. Yeah, absolutely.

 

Katy McFee (47:48.846)

They’re just the way that I live my life. And the only thing that has really changed again is like the permission piece. I already knew that like working out in the morning made me feel better, but I felt bad and then I was like, oh no, okay, I need this. So I’m allowed to ask for it. Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (48:04.075)

And do you think ADHD and confidence, what’s the relationship there do you think?

 

Katy McFee (48:09.986)

I mean, I think because of the shame piece, the negative messaging, all of that stuff, we know that people with ADHD are more likely to have anxiety and depression and all types of other things. I think I’m sure it’s… Well, I’m not sure. I believe my guess, if I were to guess, would be that is not biological. It’s because of the way we are received and perceived as…

 

people with ADHD. And so I think that absolutely impacts our confidence, right? We have to, I think we have, once we really understand ourselves, I think we have to work at choosing to build back that confidence and feel good about who we actually are, right? Like.

 

Lucy Gernon (48:56.043)

Yeah, I think it’s kind of like you’re you’re especially in corporate. You’re you’re trying to fit into. Well, for me, I feel like I was a little bit of a square peg in a round hole in a lot of ways because I was more of a creative like, you know, I could solve problems so fast. I can see really simple solutions really, really quickly. And I don’t need like a lot of I don’t. Any time anyone ever gave me and I know you love data. We can talk about this in second. But sometimes I’d be asked, you know, I mean to do capacity plans or projections and like

 

You could literally spend a week on a spreadsheet. And I used to do it for a long time. I absolutely hated every last bit of it. But I, I always knew the answer anyway. So I would do all of this and I was like, but like sometimes you just have to do it. And I think sometimes if you have people on your team, if you’re logical and you’re data driven and you have somebody on your team who has a proven track record of making good decisions without data, let them use their gut, like let them move forward. Whereas I feel like I was held back.

 

a lot. So sometimes like I can say this now, but sometimes I would like if I was asked to do capacity plans for resources and things like the first time I did it, I had a whole team of like, you know, lean Six Sigma experts around me. had statisticians, all of us, right. Spent so much time on this capacity plan. And in the end, it ended up being totally wrong based on what I actually really did need because it wasn’t factoring in potential shifts and like all these things that I was like, that’s not right. So the next time I had to do it, I literally went back and I was like, OK.

 

What I want the number to be? What do I actually know that it actually needs to be? And how can I work backwards to make all of these numbers add to this number? And I got done like in like an hour or two by myself. was still, you you’re only forecasting. So like nobody actually has the exact predictions of what’s going to happen. Whereas, yeah, I just found like that really annoyed me in the corporate world that I just couldn’t move at the speed I wanted to, which would have actually helped the business.

 

Katy McFee (50:29.965)

Yeah.

 

Katy McFee (50:39.702)

Yeah.

 

Katy McFee (50:48.994)

Well, this is one thing I always say to people too, because one of the things that I would think was like, can I actually be an executive? These people seem so different than me. And again, if I think about it now, a lot of that had to do with the fact that I had ADHD, because I was like, I like forget to pay for parking and I like, I’m late for meetings. Like these people are, they have their shit together and I don’t, you know? And, but what I found was that,

 

once I got to the executive level, a lot of that stuff goes away. A lot of the like, because when I was at a director level, I was still being asked to like, write these big, long strategy plans and doing all these things that like, for me were like pure torture, like absolutely hated doing it. I wasn’t good at it because I hated it, all that stuff, right? Once I got to the exec level, I had resources. had like admin assistants and a team and like all of this stuff. And so I could…

 

actually choose to spend my time the way that served me best that I enjoyed and that I was also better at, right? Which for me was like, yes, serve me up the data and like, let me connect the dots and let me figure out this and which lever should we really pull in order to like maximize our growth? I’m like, I love that. But I don’t want to go source that data and like figure it out. Like I needed a strong right hand to do that for me. And so,

 

I actually love putting this message out into the world where if anybody listening suspects they have ADHD or has ADHD, you absolutely can thrive as an executive. Middle management is probably a harder place for you to be. So it’s like, you know, claw your way up, like do what you gotta do. This sucks where you are right now. But it’s like, once you get into that exec seat, you’re gonna be able to like really leverage the…

 

the genius of your ADHD brain. So yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (52:47.819)

my gosh, that is a lovely pearls of wisdom to give to everybody. Hope it’s given you some hope for sure as well. a lot of entrepreneurs have ADHD or dyslexic or they’re on the spectrum in some ways. So I genuinely know I’m at a stage where I do see it as a superpower. And I think just knowing that not everyone is going to like you and actually being OK with that is for me has been the most freeing thing. It took me a long time and a lot of work. So, I’m we’re having this conversation today. It’s very emotional and moving and

 

Katy McFee (52:58.542)

Honey.

 

Katy McFee (53:17.538)

Hahaha

 

Lucy Gernon (53:18.119)

Beautiful and all the things.

 

Katy McFee (53:20.95)

Yeah, I mean, I feel like people need to hear it. Right. It’s like people look one way on the outside and like, you know, I always like kind of joke like people, people think I have my shit together. It really looks like it. And on social media and on, you know, the when we see people in a certain light, we tend to put them on pedestals. And I did this for years with, you know, influencers or

 

Lucy Gernon (53:23.529)

Yeah, I feel like.

 

Katy McFee (53:49.152)

executives or just like people, right? I mean, we put people on pedestals and we have to remember that like everyone is just a messy human. I don’t care who it is. Everybody, we’re all just people.

 

Lucy Gernon (53:56.076)

Yeah, everybody. And I remember when we were in LA, was it J Shetty? So I’m just like named up in here, but I think it was J Shetty when we were in LA. Was it J Shetty? I think it was. Yeah, he did. was him. And he talked about we were talking about like success. Remember I asked him, I was asked him about like success and happiness and all of that stuff. And then he spoke about he’s like, I know billionaires who are absolutely miserable. I know people who are the happiest people in the world who have absolutely nothing.

 

Katy McFee (54:21.367)

Yes.

 

Lucy Gernon (54:25.791)

So sometimes I think we look at people who are successful, are like billionaires, like Richard Branson, for example, or like Jeff Bezos or whoever. We may think that they have all of their shit together, but they don’t. They just have teams, they’re human, they make mistakes, and guess what? They become successful along the way.

 

Katy McFee (54:44.046)

Yeah. Well, so I’m actually reading a book right now, which I already feel like I am pretty good about this, but it’s called The Art of Spending Money. I know if you, I think his name is Morgan Hounsell is the author. He wrote The Psychology of Money, which is also a really good one. And The Art of Spending Money is all about, are you spending money so that other people are impressed or are you spending money on things that actually make your life better?

 

And so it’s a good one. It’s a good one to read. this is, already, I feel that I am very intentional. I’ve done a lot of like work and thinking and journaling and reflecting on what’s important to me and the life I want to have and what’s enough and all that kind of stuff. But we do tend to equate like monetary success or fame with happiness. And the truth is there’s not much of a correlation there. So you can use money to be happier.

 

if you’re intentional about it, but if you’re chasing status and, you know, admiration from other people, then that’s not the path to happiness. So.

 

Lucy Gernon (55:51.136)

Yeah. my God. You’re so right. Like I’m the same for years and years and years. Like I, I’ve loved like Louis Vuitton and all of those things since before I could even afford it. I was, I was just always like, I always liked designer things, but it was because of the status. was like, okay, so if I have this, it means I’m good enough. If I have this, I’ll fit in with people who I look up to, which means I’m like them, which means I’m good enough. It all came back to that kind of thing. And what I know now is I’m the same like

 

Katy McFee (56:16.535)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (56:21.033)

that last year I basically got rid of so much of my designer stuff and I actually donated it because I was like, somebody else might be really, really happy with that kind of thing. I don’t need to buy any more stuff. Like I know you and I, we went and we got ourselves a little purchase in Cartier. We don’t need designer stuff. It was a big thing. But it’s overstated, right? And to me, like a lot of people wouldn’t know what it is. And that’s like an investment piece and it’s gold and it’s going to increase your value. And I see it in heirloom.

 

Katy McFee (56:40.599)

WE DON’T-

 

Katy McFee (56:49.622)

It’s also fun. I’m actually, so my mentality is like, I still like nice things. Like I still like, and I like attaching prizes with goals. just like, I’m such, I’m like still eight years old. Like I’m like, if I hit this goal, I’m going to get this prize. And sometimes it’s like.

 

Lucy Gernon (56:50.837)

Don’t always that.

 

Lucy Gernon (56:55.839)

Let me film.

 

Lucy Gernon (57:05.845)

So hang on, you don’t need things anymore, but you do.

 

Katy McFee (57:08.716)

Yeah. Well, to me, to me, it’s not even about buying nice things or not. It’s about the control that money has over you, if it makes sense. Right. So so I think you can choose if you have money and you can afford it and you want to buy a Louis Vuitton purse or you want to buy a Cartier ring or you want to buy whatever. Do it. You do you. Right. It’s like that’s totally fine. And I think you can even do it knowing like when if you’re when we were at the last mastermind.

 

one of the women, I’m not gonna obviously name on the podcast, but was talking about a Chanel purse and getting a Chanel purse and how she wanted one or something. And we were having a conversation and I said, if you were on a desert island, would you still buy that Chanel purse? She goes, fuck no. She acknowledged, I am doing it to be seen. And I actually think there’s nothing wrong with that. Like I’m a big believer there’s no right way to live.

 

So long as it’s within your means, you’re doing it intentionally. Like you recognize that the truth is no one is going to think you’re cooler or better because you have that. You’re not even gonna, they might look at the person and be like, I wish I had that purse for me, but they’re not gonna look at that person and be like, that girl must be really cool because she has that purse. Like they’re not gonna actually attach that item to you. And so if you can consciously know that and still choose to buy it, go to town. Like, you know, I think it’s fine.

 

Lucy Gernon (58:29.503)

Yeah, exactly. I think it’s good, though. It’s a good feeling, like not needing, you know, I think when I think they don’t they say when was it something about rich people don’t shop in New Yvytown? It’s only people who want to look rich that shop in New Yvytown. And that’s not actually true, though, because obviously it’s not. But in a lot of cases, that’s why you get so many fake bags and stuff going around. But I think it is. goes back to kind of that status. So, I think it’s like.

 

Katy McFee (58:35.566)

That’s weird.

 

Katy McFee (58:44.258)

Bye.

 

Lucy Gernon (58:55.179)

just spend your money on things that bring you joy. for me, like when we did our little trip into Cartier together, like that was my first Cartier purchase. And every time I look at it, it reminds me of, it’s a memory. Like it’s special moment that we had and we were all there. And it’ll remind me of, you know, of that kind of trip. And like I said, my kids and things.

 

Katy McFee (59:12.608)

Exactly. Like if I ordered this ring online by myself, it wouldn’t feel the same. Like maybe that would be kind of like a quote waste or whatever. But because like I feel like we went and did it together and it meant something. And it was like this. It was just like, yeah, every time I look at it and to me, it represents like, like, like expansive energy and like, like we tied meeting to it. Right. Like the whole like everything that you need is already within you and everything. Like, and so.

 

Lucy Gernon (59:19.135)

Mm.

 

Lucy Gernon (59:34.299)

Exactly.

 

Katy McFee (59:42.284)

That’s what, then I think it’s, that’s a different story. Like when I look at this, I feel good. I like remember that. Like, I think that’s money well spent actually.

 

Lucy Gernon (59:50.444)

Exactly. I think money is well, you know, we’ve spoken with this before, but I’ve really shifted my money mindset from I live in serious scarcity because I grew up in we didn’t have a lot like so I was always very, very conscious of money and like all of those things. And when I started my business, I was really, really hard, blah, blah, blah. But now I genuinely just see money as numbers on a spreadsheet because that’s actually all it is like money doesn’t. I remember money mindset coach sharing the same

 

Katy McFee (01:00:15.074)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (01:00:20.191)

You know, money doesn’t actually exist. You do know that. money doesn’t actually exist. What does that mean? Like you get a number on your payslip. It goes in as a number in your bank account. You use a certain amount of that number to purchase whatever the thing is. Like, but it’s not actually as valuable as, you know, what inflation and changes in currencies. Like it’s not, it’s an illusion. It actually is. It’s just a resource. Whereas your time is, is the most important thing. So spending it wisely on

 

Katy McFee (01:00:30.562)

Yeah.

 

Katy McFee (01:00:44.855)

Yeah

 

Lucy Gernon (01:00:47.743)

you know, experiences and like, you know, things that would buy you back your time. I’m being happy. I think it’s just so much more important in terms of money. Well, listen, we’re on for about an hour. I mean, I wonder where people still with us. Girls, do you like our conversations? Do like our KB and Lucy?

 

Katy McFee (01:01:03.31)

Is anyone still listening or is it just us? Hey, if it’s just us, I’m okay with that.

 

Lucy Gernon (01:01:07.669)

Well, now we can get into the really good stuff. Did you hear about?

 

Katy McFee (01:01:11.788)

You know what, if people like this conversation, we’ll do another one, right? Like, because we didn’t even really, we didn’t even dive into perimenopause, which I think could be a topic for another chat.

 

Lucy Gernon (01:01:14.399)

Yeah, exactly, that’s snow.

 

Lucy Gernon (01:01:20.139)

Well, you know what? Definitely. We should definitely do something on perimenopause for sure. So guys, let us know. DM, Katie and I, us know what you thought about this conversation. was a little bit more organic. We started off deep. We always will, We go deep and then we go high.

 

Katy McFee (01:01:23.586)

Yeah, keep dive on pro-metapod.

 

Katy McFee (01:01:32.31)

I love it. I only have two. You’re either a stranger or I’m asking you what your secret hopes and dreams and fears are. Like, two levels.

 

Lucy Gernon (01:01:39.819)

Like literally, I mean, there’s no gay keeping in this. This is totally real. Okay. Well, I think well we will we leave it there for today I think that thing we’ve I think we’ve done that. Okay, Thank you for being my friend are you grateful I’m your friend do you like me? No, I’m gonna have an asthma attack I need my inhaler hang on Literally, oh my god, okay listen

 

Katy McFee (01:01:47.406)

Leave it there. This was so fun, Lucy. I always love talking to you.

 

Katy McFee (01:01:58.028)

I like you a lot. I love you.

 

Katy McFee (01:02:02.766)

Not how excited you are.

 

Lucy Gernon (01:02:08.299)

We are gonna go and continue this conversation off the air. Guys, thank you for tuning in to the Lucy and Katie show today. If you’re listening on the Lucy and and and Luzzi Luzzi Luzzi and show today, thank you for being here. Let me know if you would like Katie to come back for another conversation. And if you are listening on where Katie is on Katie’s show, or if she pops it up somewhere, reach out to Katie and let us know your feedback as well. until next time from me anyway, see you later. Katie, do you wanna say anything to say goodbye?

 

Katy McFee (01:02:15.118)

you

 

Katy McFee (01:02:36.374)

Yeah, feel free to reach out if you want to hear more about this or if you have other topics that you want us to jam out about, then we always want to hear that. But this was super fun. I can’t wait to do it again.

 

Lucy Gernon (01:02:46.441)

Amazing. Thank you.

 

Katy McFee (01:02:48.099)

Bye.