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Welcome to the Powerhouse Revolution Podcast. I’m Lucy Gernon, ex corporate leader turned CEO of my dream business, helping corporate female leaders just like you to create your dream career and life. At 40 I quit the corporate world as I was tired of doing a job that no longer led me up and wanted to live my life my way. I created the power house Revolution podcast to give you simple, actionable tips and strategies to help you create the perfect career and lifestyle that you and your family deserve. So if you’re a corporate female leader or manager who is ready to step into her superpowers and live the life you were born to live, you are definitely in the right place, because life is way too short to dread Mondays. Okay, let’s jump into today’s episode.
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Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the powerhouse Revolution podcast. I hope you’re doing well wherever you are today. And today, I have a another special guest who is here to talk all about the Juggle of motherhood and leadership. So my guest today is Geraldine Gallagher. She’s a transition coach and she helps works with organizations really to I suppose for women who are returning back from maternity leave, and really that transition between you know, motherhood and the workplace. So, darling, you’re very welcome to the podcast today. How are you?
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Thank you so much, Lucy, I am great. Thanks. Delighted to be here today with you.
1:39
Amazing, amazing. So firstly, you want to just like I suppose explain in your own words, what you do, who you help them, why is it important?
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Okay, so. So I work with organizations, as you say, to support and retain their, their working female talent. So primarily those returning from work after maternity leave, and then those senior women stepping into more senior roles as well. So it’s all around transition. So hence, my title transition coach. And I suppose a bit about my background, so I spent 16 years in the corporate world myself prior to setting up my own business. And I would say I’m a recovering change management consultant. And in my, in my former life, let’s call it I always have worked in various in various companies, various industries in various geographical locations. So, as a consultant, you know, my role was going in and out of companies on a regular basis. So I was all about change and transition. So you know, I suppose I’ve been through that journey, I get it. I know what, when I was doing it, I wasn’t a parent. So I didn’t get the challenges of better parents and donors. And it was only I suppose, when I relocated to have my first child, and I joined two of these mommy and baby groups that I heard women talking about veiling, feeling as motherhood failing, I’ve been an employee going back to work that I realized there was a thing. And, you know, and I think it’s really important that people realize that is a challenge, especially managers, you know, if they don’t have the awareness around that, and I will put my hands up and say, before I became parents, I didn’t know I, you know, I wasn’t aware that this, I just expected somebody to go on maternity leave and come back, because, you know, I knew them beforehand, and that the same person, but they’re not in the whole lot of stuff that has happened. So it’s really about supporting women through that transition. And, you know, setting them up for success back in the workplace. And, you know, my, I suppose my belief is that every parent should have are entitled to have a fulfilling career, and also a happy life. Yes,
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100%, I could not agree more. And I absolutely, like, just as you were speaking, I was thinking about my own journey, like, I have three kids, and I’m kind of going, you’re right, like, you know, you go back to work after maternity leave, you’re feeling really vulnerable, you’re trying to juggle this whole new identity of mother and, you know, leader or employee at the same time. So tell me like what would be I suppose the common fears and worries that these women would have?
4:04
Yeah, so So I suppose if I talk you through the four pillars of my program, we kind of hit off, you know, the common challenges. And I suppose the big thing I would say, like every, you know, we’ve all had children, or mommies. But every single, you know, birthing experience was unique, it was different. So no two are the same. And it’s exactly the same for women going back to work. So be it your, you know, first time going back to work after maternity or be at your third, you could still want support at different times, you know, so I think that’s, that’s the first thing to say about this. So the four pillars of my program, the first one is about reconnect. And that’s helping women to reconnect to the professional identity because what’s happened is that especially for a first time parents, they’ve gone from being a working professional, to you know, a mom was born, and then they’re stepping back into work as a working parent, and that’s an identity shift and often People say, you know, I don’t know who I am anymore. And like, I totally get that because, you know, I felt that as I’m sure most women do. And so it’s really getting them, giving them the time and space to focus on them. And to identify again, like who are they. And it’s also that they understand that they’re, you know, sometimes I think women feel that because they’ve been on maternity leave that they’re, it’s almost like, if you were to look at as a formula, it’s a minus the value that they bring to the table. But actually, my view of the world is you’ve got enhanced skills that you’re bringing back to the workplace. So it’s about looking at your brand, both your personal and your professional brand. And really stepping into that and being confident. And that brings me I suppose into my second pillar, which is around rebuilding confidence, because this is an area that I see women have diminished confidence. And part of it is because you know, you’ve been out of the workplace for up to a year. And as we both know, you know, we live in a VUCA world, as they call it, where there’s, you know, volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity. And often, you know, going back into the workplace, things have changed, your role might have changed, you might have a new manager, you know, there might have been a merger, all this stuff. So there’s a lot to take on. And also, what I see is that sometimes women, especially if they’ve had somebody covered the maternity leave that and that person is kept on, for example, they can create this narrative in their head. And I think females were great at creating little stories. And
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we know, fantastic. We should all be authors, we’ve
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got amazing stories going on. So it’s about really challenging those stories, and, you know, like getting out of our own way, because I think sometimes what that does, then it’s it, you know, it makes us play small, when actually we can we can show up in such a bigger and brighter light than than we are choosing to do at the moment.
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Absolutely. I’m just hanging there, as you were saying that about the stories. I actually had a conversation with my husband last night, ironically, about this. I was sitting on the couch, and I you know, as women, I think our heads are just so full. All the time. I asked him a question. He was like, he wasn’t even present. I said to him, I was like, what’s in your head right now? And he said, Nothing. I’m just watching the television. And they said, You must have so much space in there. And he said, Yeah, I could see the spaciousness in his head. Whereas they think, with the stories, I mean, this a lot, obviously, a lot of the work I do as well, we see it as coaches all the time. Can you tell my listeners just because they’re sick of me probably telling them, tell them what kind of stories you you hear kind of your clients tell you that they tie themselves in their heads? Just want people to know, we’re not alone. Right?
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Yes. 100%? Look at that, I suppose the common ones are, you know, I’m not good enough. I don’t know enough. And, you know, it’s all the it’s all the negative of not enough, you know, and and I suppose an important thing to say here as well, is that when women are, you know, going for, say a promotion, or asking for salaries, this is where I see it a lot in terms of confidence, right? What happens is, although let’s say let’s say somebody with, let’s say 10 years experience in the workplace, right? When they be if they don’t prep for that conversation, what happens is they show up in that conversation, as a former version of themselves. So it’s the person who was maybe three years in industry, who didn’t know at all who, you know, who was limited, if you like, compared to where they are now. So again, it’s the power of the stories and what’s going on in our head. And if we don’t take time to untangle that, and unravel that, and, you know, create the empowering stories that will actually set us up for success, then we’re doing ourselves a disservice.
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And talk to me a little bit then about and I mean, I think when you get this whole thing about the stories, because I you know, a lot of women I would work with as well, then we don’t see that we are not the story, we don’t see that that we identify as well, I’m not confident or I don’t deserve this. So what would you say to somebody who is currently has a negative narrative in their minds about their capabilities?
9:09
So the first the first thing I’d say, okay, so become aware of what you’re thinking, right? The second thing is, so when we say I am, this, I am whatever that that is at your identity level. And that’s a really, I suppose, a very powerful place to have, you know, I am statements. So what you need to do is replace that I am negative, what I am positive, whatever that is. So, even even if you feel if you’ve, if you’re feeling that you’re not confident, you can say, I feel that I’m not confident, and that takes the power and the energy, there’s not as much strong energy going into that as opposed to, I am not confident because it’s almost like I think if you see, I am not confident. It’s almost like it feels that it’s rigid, it’s stuck. This is the way it’s got to be forever. There’s no choice. There’s no power for change, whereas I don’t feel confident right now. It’s like okay, this is this is a phase like can look for strategies identify ways to move forward and get unstuck.
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Yeah, oh my god, I love that. So instead of saying I am not confident, it’s more I feel I that’s really powerful. I’m definitely blanking that one for later. And I was thinking, as you were speaking as well, in the book, The Chimp Paradox, they fabulous book, my listeners will have heard me recommend many times. But they he talks about a group of medical students around this whole identity thing. And he tells one group to are the study director told one group of students to basically pretend that they were a janitor, and walked down the corridor full of like, full of people. And then you told the other group to walk down the corridor as if they were a CEO. Right. So basically, long and short. But in this study, that the group who walked down as the janitor walked down kind of with their head held down low confidence didn’t really make eye contact, didn’t say hello to people. And then obviously, the people who identified as being CEOs were walking down smiling, saying loads people full of energy and confidence. So the whole expose, the whole moral of the story was, is that what you tell yourself, you become? And if you tell it, like what you’re saying, if you tell yourself, you know, I don’t have confidence, you’re not going to behave in that way. Whereas if you identify as being competent, you are going to behave very, very differently, aren’t you?
11:18
Yeah. And I think it’s the biggest thing here is, it’s how we see ourselves. Yeah, you know, not how others perceive us. And the other thing I suppose for women going back to work, like, the reality is that people remember you, as you were not as how you are now. Because right now, you may not feel confident, but they remember you as the person that you know, got things done, that was a high achiever, all those things. So just bear that in mind, too. You know, because I think in a transition, it’s almost like the ground is unsteady. And you need to find your footing and just kind of solidified the foundations to get going again, but people don’t even know that’s going on for you. So to be able to be aware of that as well, you know,
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yeah. So what can women so firstly, what can women who are going back from maternity leave, or who are finding motherhood and you know, professional life is struggling? What can they do? First, I suppose what would be your top three tips for those women to empower themselves? First of all,
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so I think the first thing is, and I recommend this to my clients is to reach out to people in in your workplace and arranged to have a virtual coffee, because that’s going to do a couple of things. First of all, it’s going to allow you to reconnect and you know, start building those relationships again. Secondly, it allows you to get up to speed much quicker with what’s happened, what’s going on, you know, where the company is at what the challenges are. And it’s so much quicker than trying to especially, you know, nowadays, like a lot of lists are still working virtually. And that’s a disconnect for you know, what can be harder than I think for maternity returners. So, you know, be proactive, have those conversations. So that’s my first tip. My second tip, then is, because you’ve been on maternity leave, you know, we’re in that world of baby talk. So the whole lingo and acronyms at all the business world, you know, we probably kind of just forgot about. So start, you know, whether it’s listening to podcasts or webinars? Or is there a specific training that you could attend? Or do you know, just to start getting your head and mindset back into the game. And I think that’s very important. And I suppose on the third thing, in terms of the practical side, you know, when you are getting ready to go back and you’re transitioning and dropping your baby off to or your two children off to crush your childcare, like do the roof, you know, physically drive it and do it. But what I say is, you know, before you go back to work, when you do your roots, your practice, Vaughn, do not go home and do the jobs, the jobs will be there forever. And do something nice for yourself, treat yourself, just have me time, you know, whatever that is, it’s so so important. And that’s another pillar of my program recharge. You know, there is a study done in the UK, where basically it showed that working moms that felt more 18% more stressed after one child and 40% more stressed after two kids, and I totally get the 14% I don’t know what it is this year after tweaking
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it myself. And okay, I love I love that like and I suppose on the I was gonna say something. Yeah, that was something that came to my mind. So one thing I hear and I know you hear it as well. So the moments going back to work, you’ve given your tips about doing, you know, doing the runs and doing the self care and all that which is fine. And then she goes back to work and she’s trying to integrate, integrate, and she’s in a meeting and all of a sudden she starts to feel super guilty that she’s not with her kids. She’s worried about her kids. She’s feeling guilty. And then she goes home to her kids and then she’s feeling guilty because she’s not on the laptop. So have you a magic bullet for the mom guilt because I don’t
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I’d love to see I’ve got a magic formula here that I can you know, everyone could get as well. You know, look, I think we have to be realistic. So, so ask yourself, Where is the guilt coming from? And often, you know, like, obviously, we’re all conditioned and programmed from from our childhoods, you know, and we have to, and sometimes it’s other parents as well, or, you know, the experts are saying, we shouldn’t be doing this. So we should be doing that. But if, like, I always say, you know, you have to look like you get to go to work, you get to go home and have time with your family, you know, you’re, you’re choosing us because, you know, having a job and, you know, that is obviously financially rewarding, and it’s giving us the lifestyle is supporting our family. It’s all that stuff. So I think, rather than kind of looking zooming in on it, it’s about looking at the big picture. And what that gives you an personally, I think guilt is a choice. But if you’re suffering with guilt, like check in with yourself, ask yourself, Okay, on a scale of one to 10, where is my guild currently today? Uh, let’s see. The seven. So again, ask yourself, Okay, so what’s making the seven? How can I bring that down to six? Or five? You know, and it’s just about I didn’t fight, you know, what are the little things you can let go of? Yeah, you know,
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yeah, absolutely. I love that, like, just checking in on the score thing, because I think I think the biggest problem when it comes to mom guilt is that we don’t act on it. So I think if you’re feeling guilty, like you said, Well, it’s like walk, what can you do to change it? And I know that there was I read a recent study as well about kids and guilt, or mom guilt, or sorry, the impact our parents have on us. So when we’re with our kids, it’s about being present with our kids. It’s about not having the phone and the emails or taking the work call, like 10 minutes of quality time, it’s about the quality time, isn’t it? So I know, when I when I used to feel really guilty. And I took me a long time to actually cop on to this, I’d be sitting there nearly like a victim going, Oh, poor me and my poor kids, my life is so hard that I have all this work to do. And I have all these children to look after. Whereas then when I realized, actually almost my mother always says to me, all they want is your time, but when you’re with them be present. So I think even if you do a 10 minute little book with your kids, or like just 10 minute chart, or whatever it is, like literally for me, that’s enough to take any guilty hold off. Works for me anyway. So what else I want to ask you, then we’ve gone through Mangels, we’ve gone through your tips for the women returning. So what about companies? what can organizations? So first of all, let me back up before I ask you that question. When I was pregnant with my third child, I suffered with prenatal anxiety, super bad, I was having panic attacks. And really bad I had to go for therapy and everything because I was so worried about having three children. And I led a big team as well. Very, very busy environment. I was so worried of not being able to handle that when I was pregnant with hormones and everything that I was I literally went a bit mad, right, not mad, but I needed help like, so I suppose. And then when I came back to work, I felt very Oh, my God, people are going to be looking at me now because I was out when I went out sick on maternity leave, I couldn’t cope. I just could not cope. And and then obviously over supported I was able to come through. So why is it important? First of all, for organizations to actually support women. I think John pregnancies were like, what’s important about this whole transition is like you said, it’s such an identity shift. Why is it important that what will they benefit? How will they benefit?
18:28
I suppose the biggest thing is right, that as employees, employees are typically emotionally attached to the company they work for, right? And what we want to do is to nurture that relationship. So you want to ensure that your employees feel cared for. So when I think like even I remember my experience when I was pregnant, I felt I was operating from the head up, you know, my body was growing a baby, but like in the corporate world, I was like, Well, I just need to focus on the work and get it done. But actually, what we need to do, and especially if people are working remotely, you know, you can’t see someone been pregnant and getting bigger and all that stuff going on. So just ask someone, how are they getting on, you know, especially if you’re not physically seeing them. So it’s having those conversations and also before they go on maternity leave, just as, as a manager, like have a conversation to find out. Like, you know, when you come back what you know, where is your interest lies, like career aspiration stories, or, you know, finding out what’s important to them. It’s really important. And so that they know, okay, well they see me as even though I’m going on maternity leave, they still see me as a valued member of the team. Because I think a lot of that, you know, the narrative can be like, Oh, well, I’m going on maternity leave now. And you know, I want to go for that promotion, but I better not because I’m on maternity leave. And I would say if you’re in that position, please please go for your promotion. It is so important. And if you’re a manager, encourage your women to go for the promotions before they go on maternity leave, or even if they’re expecting it doesn’t matter. You know, we know that there’s research out there to say the more women we have at board level word level, the more successful organizations are. So it’s getting that mixed, but we have to encourage, because I think women stand in their own way anyways. And then maternity is just another blockage for us where we think, Well, I can tell I shouldn’t and all this stuff, which is complete nonsense, we just need to go for it and own it. But again, having a supportive manager, having conversations, checking in ensuring that there’s no maternity bias happening, you know, where your manager like, I’ve heard women tell me that they’re interested in promotion, and their manager has said to them, oh, look, I did that when I come back and was too much, you don’t need to do that. Now. Just take it easy, blahdy blah, you know, unlike that, that’s not that person’s choice. You know, obviously, you need to speak up and say what’s important to you?
20:43
I agree, I agree fully with you on that one. I think that’s also important. And I just think in there as well, like on the maternity, I was thinking back to my own time and management, and I want your opinion on this, right? There’s my there’s a massive mindset shift that some leaders need to make, and I did as well, is that when somebody comes to you, and they tell you that they’re pregnant, okay, on your team, your first reaction is shit, I have to replace this person who’s going to replace this person. And obviously, you’re happy for them, and you want to congratulate them. But I want to keep it real, that that’s the narrative in the head, right? I have to find someone, I have to hire as much onboard and blah, blah. And sometimes, we nearly right off that person in our minds, because we know they’re going not right off. But you know what I mean, it’s like this person’s going. And I’ve heard women say that as well, that they feel like, you know, they say they’re pregnant under nearly been booed out the door. So what’s the mindset shift that leaders need to make when they hear that lovely announcement of?
21:39
I’m pregnant? Yeah, so you’re 100%. Right. And I’d say that’s, that’s the way everyone’s mind goes, you know, what they hear those words. And I think it’s about realizing, you know, when you’re a manager, you’ve got a talented individual in front yet that knows so much that is contributing hugely to your team. And yes, they’re going out to the workplace for a period of time, but they’re going to be back. And it’s not like you have to retrain someone else and get them up to speed. They have so much knowledge and experience that they will be bringing back into the organization which enhance skills. So I think it’s important to kind of frame it like that for you as a manager, that it’s not like, yes, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a temporary interrupt, in terms of, you know, you have to get other resources and all that kind of stuff. But they will be back. No, and it’s about ensuring that you’re communicating that which a person you know, and you’re obviously congratulating them. And you’re saying to them, you know, when they come back, or we’ve missed you, and we’re so glad to have you back, because like, that might seem like a throwaway comment. But for the maternity returner? Oh, yeah, that’s so powerful. You know, because again, that can diminish the narrative that’s going on in their heads. Yeah. You know,
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to Laura from mine, mommy coaching, I don’t know if you know, Laura can never say her surname. Sorry, Laura, if you’re listening, and we were talking about this, one of the top fears, she says she works with women in in mommy’s mom’s basically in the workplace as well. And she said, and she saw, right, one of the biggest fears she hears from her clients would be one of the crash rings, and I have to go collect my child, because my child is sick, she said, women are so afraid of having to go and tell their boss that they’re trying to seek the need to take a day off, because they’re afraid of how it’s gonna look on them. So what would you say to women with that narrative? Look,
23:30
I think, you know, we have to be real here. You know, and if if you don’t have any other backup, or if you want to be the person to go up to pick up your sick child, then you have to own us. And you know, whether it’s a case that you’re going to log on later, or you’re going to make the time elsewhere, or you’re not going to make up time out there, whatever that is, like just having those conversations. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t, I suppose the thing is, it doesn’t mean that you’re not committed to your role. It means you’re a human and you’re dealing with life situations.
24:01
You know, I love that. So how do we get the women then who because that is what it is, it’s like shift are gonna think I’m not committed. So how do we, if someone’s thinking that right now? Yeah, how do we change that?
24:13
Look, I always think that you have to be transparent. So so just be directed. Look, I’m 100% committed to my role here. But unfortunately, my child is sick, I need to go right now and pick it up, pick the child up and I you know, I’m going to do X Y, Zed whenever or whatever that is, you know, like, rather than having, you know, us making up a story in our head and thinking they’re making up a story in their head about us, we just call it out and we just say the way it is.
24:39
Yeah, I love that. I think it’s sometimes it’s like we asked nearly go away nearly asking for permission. So I remember like, I’d have different team members. I’d have team members who would come to me exactly like you said, super direct, honest, just tell me that they can’t come in in the morning because their kid is sick. And because they’re so confident and so assured and what they’re saying. I’m like yeah, okay, whereas if somebody comes to me, and I’d really like asking permission, I feel like oh, maybe there’s another option there. Do they have to leave? So I think you’re so so right around just owning that. It’s also important. Yeah. Okay, so I suppose I think we’ve kind of covered everything I wanted to go through with with you today. That’s been so many little gems in there for women. So I always asked my, my podcast guests two questions at the end. The first one is what’s the best piece of advice you have ever received?
25:28
Okay, so I went to my first personal development course back in 2006, I didn’t know what personal development, I didn’t even know personal development was a thing to be quite another as a friend of mine asked me to go because he wanted to go on her own. And I remember there was a picture of a puppet on strings. And basically, there was a caption underneath that says, if it’s to be, it’s up to me. And for me, that was a game changer, because at the time, I was thinking about moving to London, but my manager was kinda, you know, showing me all these shiny objects to keep me here. And I remember seeing that, and I just decided, no, this is what I want. I’m going to London and before the course had finished, I had basically secured myself a job and I’d moved to London. But I think the other thing to remember about that, and I think you spoke about this, Lucy, if it’s to be it’s up to me, you know, when external factors don’t go according to plan so you don’t get the promotion, you don’t get the contract signed, whatever that is, again, it’s up to me. You know, don’t let let the external world pull your strings you kind of stay focused on what it is that you decide, first of all what you want, and then you keep going keep going for what it is that you want.
26:38
Amazing. I absolutely love that. Geraldine, thank you so much. You’ve given us so much value here today. Where can people find you?
26:46
So my so they can email me at info at Inspire coaching dot E or go to my website, www dot inspire coaching dot E and if there’s any HR managers, or diversity and inclusion team members listening to me who are interested in how I can work with their companies, then simply drop me an email and I’m happy to have a chat.
27:07
Perfect, perfect we look guys, I link our journeys website in the show notes anyway, so that you can go over and connect with her there. Jordan, thanks so much for your time.
27:15
My pleasure. Thanks so much, Lucy. Take care
