#189 How to Prevent Burnout Before it Derails Your Leadership Career with Shauna Moran

Lucy Gernon (00:01.264)

Do you want to unlock your full potential without burning out or missing out on life? My guest today on the 360 Leadership podcast is the fantastic Shona Mourn, who partners with leaders and organizations to build high performing cultures rooted in wellbeing, emotional intelligence and sustainable leadership. With over a decade of experience, I’m going to start all this again. Oh no, not for the intro, right? One more time. Sorry, Ali, if you can just cut all that. Okay.

 

Shauna Moran (00:23.436)

And look safe, don’t be worried.

 

Lucy Gernon (00:31.76)

Do you want to unlock your full potential without burning out? I know if you’re listening to my show, that’s exactly why you’re here. And today I have an extremely special guest and her name is Shona Mourne. She is a fellow executive coach who partners with leaders and organizations to build high performance cultures rooted in well-being, emotional intelligence and sustainable leadership. With over a decade of experience coaching and training leaders across 20 countries, Shona has worked with Fortune 500 companies, startup unicorns and mission-driven organizations alike.

 

She’s very passionate about helping women leadership to unlock their potential. And in this conversation, Shona is going to share what she’s learned from coaching women leaders across the globe, the real roots of burnout through both both the personal and systemic lens. We’re going to talk about stress and all of the things. Just know that you’re going to walk away practical tools to navigate pressure, redefine success and lead in a way that’s sustainable for yourself and those you lead. So without further ado, let’s get into today’s episode.

 

Hi, Shauna, you are very welcome to the 360 Leadership Podcast. Great to have you here.

 

Shauna Moran (01:35.126)

It’s great to be here, Lucy. Thank you so much for having me.

 

Lucy Gernon (01:38.186)

Of course. So I’ve given our listeners a little bit of an intro about, you know, who you are and what you’re about. But you want to explain in your own words, you know, what led you to the work you do and what do you do and who do you help?

 

Shauna Moran (01:49.762)

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, my work sits really at the intersection of leadership, psychology and team dynamics and leadership coaching. And ultimately, I’m here to support organizations in creating happier workplaces, workplaces where we actually feel like we can thrive, not just survive. And through that, I help people in many different ways. So as you said in the intro, Lucy, I’m really focused on that systemic lens, you know, beyond the individual.

 

what can we do as organizations across our systems, our processes, our culture, to make sure that we are setting everybody up for success in a way that reduces that unhealthy stress. And so I do a lot of different work within that. And as I said, it’s really moving beyond that individual conversation as to, well, you as an individual just need to do more. You need to do more self care or do more yoga, right?

 

we have to go beyond that conversation and beyond that in terms of how we actually support this next stage of how we work and the future of work. So that’s ultimately the work that I do.

 

Lucy Gernon (02:58.704)

Amazing. And just as you’re saying that I’m thinking about, I think it was an Instagram reel or something I saw this week. And my God, what was it? can’t remember, but it was talking about, know, was it Stephen Barkley? I think it was. And he was talking to some leader and I cannot think who it was. And he was like, you know, don’t come at me with the culture stuff like that. That’s a HR issue, right?

 

first thing for me, I would love to hear your take on that. You spoke about being a systemic issue and this culture shift and this new way of working has to come from the top. And oftentimes those at the top don’t necessarily align because they don’t understand the value. So talk a little bit about your experience dealing with that.

 

Shauna Moran (03:41.196)

Yeah, yeah. Well, I suppose I can go back a little bit, Lucy, and kind of say my own story, share a little bit about that as well and how I got to the framework that I work off. And my story started in the tech industry as a leader in corporate for many years. And by the age of 28, I had experienced burnout three times. And I really had questioned whether the corporate world was for me or not.

 

Lucy Gernon (03:48.078)

Yes.

 

Shauna Moran (04:11.434)

Long story short, I ended up setting up my own coaching business, consultancy business, and I was primarily focused on leadership development on remote teams and hybrid teams. And it became very clear to me that it wasn’t just me that experienced challenges around burnout. All the clients I was working with, all of the teams I was working with were in heightened states of stress. And I’m a very curious person.

 

I really like to know what’s going on and really, I’ve think very systemically and that’s where I ended up going back to school, doing some research on this. And actually I wrote a book in 2021 called Managing Employee Burnout, How to Create Happy, Healthy and Engaged Teams. And from that Lucy, I identified a framework that I work off and it’s the three pillar framework to support

 

burnout prevention and reduction. And the three pillars are the first one is the individual. So this is how are we as individuals supporting ourselves, managing our own stress, what’s our level of awareness around our own stress, the responsibility that we need to take as individuals. And I think that’s lifelong work for all of us. However, we can be doing everything right as an individual.

 

and we can still experience chronic stressors at work and burnout. And the second pillar moves into leadership, the key role and influence that leadership plays in our wellbeing. Leaders across their own skills, their personalities, how they show up, how they support us, the level of clarity they give us, that all impacts our stress levels. However, we can also be doing everything right as an individual. We can have the best leader in the world.

 

And we can still experience burnout. And the third pillar is the organization. And that looks at what are the loops that are creating well-being, the loops that are creating unhealthy stressors in our organization. For example, back-to-back meetings. You know, if we have an organization that does not value deep work, that values urgency over reflection, that’s going to show up systemically. That could be a source of the root cause of that stress.

 

Shauna Moran (06:33.848)

So those three pillars is really key to grasp. And when I work with teams and when I work with women leaders, it’s very easy for them to identify, boom, this is the pillar that’s impacted me the most. Great, because now we’re empowered to actually make some change around that and understand how much influence do we have over that and therefore make better decisions for ourselves.

 

Lucy Gernon (06:57.072)

my God, I love that. I love the simplicity of that, those three pillars, because it literally, it’s it, right? And, you know, I love what you’re saying there about the individual being its lifelong work, right? And recognize your stress. And then you spoke with the leadership and going back to then, you know, the piece around the organization and

 

Because I really want to start there. The reason I want to start there is because I’ve been literally on calls today with some of my senior executive level clients who are technically the leaders. But then you’ve got C-level leaders potentially over them who don’t necessarily share their views and don’t understand the cultural shift that’s required. So when you talk about the leadership part of that pillar, who is the leadership? Because to me,

 

the top management, they set the company culture. And yes, you can change the culture from within and try to influence output. How do you navigate when you just can’t seem to break through to those above you?

 

Shauna Moran (07:56.974)

Yeah, for sure. There’s a couple of pieces in that that I think are important to note. Number one, the person that we are directly reporting to, that’s a very important relationship when it comes to reducing stress and preventing burnout. So the quality of support that we are receiving from our direct leader, really important. And for those of us who are managing others, many people listening, it’s really important that we’re equipped

 

to support our team. So that’s the most important relationship that we can have. Now, again, I work with so many leadership teams and the dynamics are different across all organizations. You may have one or two leaders that understand wellbeing, they are invested in it, they care about it, likely because they’ve had their own struggles or challenges around it or probably burnt out in the past. And then you’ll have some leaders that even the term wellbeing gives them the ick.

 

So every leadership team is different and there’s so many different dynamics at play across organizations. And I work with a lot of women leaders on this conversation as well. It’s like, how much can we actually change? How much can we influence? What’s in our control? Where are we facing that push back? And where is our energy just being wasted versus what would it look like to call our energy back?

 

So I think it’s a spectrum and it’s a dance and I know this from myself working in certain organizations. When we wanna advocate for something, when we want to actually make systemic change as executive leaders, we’re courageous in that and we’re putting energy into that but we also need to know when to step back and look after ourselves and take a breather with that influence because you can’t…

 

necessarily change anybody’s mindset. It’s an impossible task. So again, that comes down to leaders looking at their values. How is that playing out in their current workplace? How sustainable is it for them? I’ve worked with women leaders who have come to me in the midst of burnout and we identify, where exactly, let’s pinpoint the sources of chronic stress.

 

Shauna Moran (10:19.042)

Let’s understand what’s in your control right now. And then let’s check back in. Has that alleviated some of that stress? Where are you now? Oftentimes it’s, yeah, okay, what I can control can make a difference and I feel better. But in some cases, Lucy, it’s like I’ve done everything I can to try and control this and I still feel like crap every single day. Now I have to make a different decision for myself. So I don’t think there’s any one size fits all. There’s no one path, one solution.

 

Lucy Gernon (10:43.077)

Hmm.

 

Shauna Moran (10:49.166)

I think it’s a real personal experience for each executive to consider.

 

Lucy Gernon (10:54.798)

Yeah. And you you’ve spoken about burnout and that you’ve been there and that you help people with burnout. So how do you actually recognize and prevent that burnout before it’s actually burning? Like what would be like your top three warning signs?

 

Shauna Moran (11:08.846)

Yeah.

 

Yeah, love that question. So burnout is recognized by the World Health Organization and it’s recognized as a workplace phenomenon that happens when we are exposed to prolonged heightened stressors on the job. So burnout doesn’t happen after a week, after a month, maybe even after six months. It happens when we are exposed to those stressors and those stressors do not change or improve for a long period of time.

 

And they define it with a couple of different symptoms like exhaustion, withdrawal, a negative sense of self, more cynical attitudes. That’s what the World Health Organization define it as. a couple of things with burnout, as I said, it happens in stages. So there’s actually five stages of burnout, which a lot of people don’t know. So when we’re exposed to these chronic stressors for a long period of time,

 

We’ll move through each of these phases, starting with the honeymoon phase, which is, know, we’re feeling very optimistic about ourselves, about the stress. OK, well, I’m going to do X, Y and Z. And this is going to support me in reducing the stress. Now, sometimes that does work. Sometimes it doesn’t. The stressors don’t change. We’re still exposed to them. Our systems are impacted by that. We move into the next stage of stress, which is the onset of stress. And that’s really where

 

We can start to experience more anxiety. It’s where sleep can start to change. It’s where we can also start to kind of see more fatigue in ourselves, our productivity lowers. Again, if we’re not changing, if the stressor isn’t changing, we’re moving again down into the next stages of burnout. And that’s really where we start to see more kind of social withdrawal, isolation, don’t want to see anybody.

 

Shauna Moran (13:08.398)

Even as leaders, may see this on your team. People aren’t interacting as much as they usually would, coming to the table with ideas. Again, we start to move into burnout then if that stress doesn’t change and habitual burnout. And that’s where things like depression can come in and our health is really, really impacted by that. So obviously we don’t want to get to those stages. So what I really invite all women to do is to really consider

 

themselves and how stress presents itself for them, because everybody presents stress differently. For some of us, it can be more emotional, for others, it’s more physical, some it’s more cognitive, behavioral. So awareness is the first step. And what we can do then when we have that awareness is we can seek healthy coping mechanisms to process that stress.

 

so that it’s not just lying dormant in our system, building up, building up, building up until we experience these symptoms. And it could be anything, the coping mechanism, like whatever works for you. And if you don’t know what works for you or what used to work for you is no longer working for you, find something else. Like it could be as simple as making sure you have a ritual of going for a walk, whatever it is, going for soundbath, breath work, meditation, like whatever really works for you.

 

but ways to consciously allow yourself to express and move that stress, as well as looking at what are the sources, the chronic root cause of what’s going on. And again, always coming back to your controllables. So there’s a law that I love to use called the Yerke-Statzen’s law, and it looks at how stress can actually be a good thing as well. So if we have too little stress, our performance is gonna be low.

 

Lucy Gernon (14:38.767)

Yeah.

 

Shauna Moran (14:59.576)

So I don’t know if you’ve ever had a job, you see, where you’ve felt really bored and you’re watching the clock and you’re like, come on, come on, yes, long time, thank God. But, you know, we all know that feeling. Now, when we increase that stress, okay, we start to put more engaged in our work, more excited about our work. Again, when we increase that stress, okay, we’re challenged, we’re moving out of the comfort zone, but it feels good.

 

Lucy Gernon (15:05.476)

A long time ago.

 

Shauna Moran (15:26.208)

It feels exciting, like we’re challenged in that good way. And then we increase that stress a bit more, we start to feel fatigued. We start to feel a bit drained. And we’re dancing between those two pieces of feeling excited and it’s feeling thrilling versus us feeling tired. So if you, if we now, if we slip into more stress, then we start to actually, our performance actually starts to decrease. And that’s where we start to kind of move into those burnout states. So it’s really important for us.

 

Lucy Gernon (15:43.12)

Hmm.

 

Shauna Moran (15:55.394)

to constantly be asking ourselves, okay, where am I on that graph? And how do I move into that optimal state? How do I get back to that optimal state? It’s constant. It really is. Especially if you’re a high growth person, like you’re focused on growth, you wanna grow, you value challenge in a good way, that’s going to be a pattern that shows up. So that’s key.

 

Lucy Gernon (16:06.256)

Bye.

 

Lucy Gernon (16:18.543)

Yeah.

 

Hmm. I’m just as Sean is just saying that guys, if it’s safe to do so, I’d love for you just to check in with yourself right now, because everything Sean is saying is also true. But how often do you stop and actually reflect? How often do you actually pause and check in? So maybe just check in with yourself for five seconds. Like, how are you feeling right now? Have you? When was the last time you actually asked yourself that question? And like, how do you?

 

Shauna, like how do you recommend, like obviously I have all my own theories and tools, I love learning from other women like you. Like what’s, how do you, you know, everything you said around, you know, we need to do sound baths and we need to do breath work and we do, and we need to exercise and do all these things. When you get on that hamster wheel and you’re going so fast and it becomes like a momentum that feels unstoppable, which is what happens right with burnout, you cannot seem to stop yourself.

 

What’s one small step somebody can take today who’s listening if they’re feeling like they’re they just can’t stop. They just don’t know how to get off the hamster wheel. What would you recommend?

 

Shauna Moran (17:22.83)

Breathe, breathe. As I’m saying this, take a bigger inhale.

 

Pause at the top.

 

Shauna Moran (17:35.982)

and let it go. And do that a couple of times.

 

The breath is so powerful and it’s always there.

 

Lucy Gernon (17:47.408)

Yeah, absolutely. I literally just had a coaching session with a client before you came in and she came in really stressed. We did one minute of breath work, one minute, guys. And within that one minute, you can completely transform. So I love that you’re saying that because some people think that they need to change lots of things. the simple tell me like the science behind the breath. What’s what’s happening in our bodies when we do that breath?

 

Shauna Moran (18:12.53)

Yeah. So when we’re breathing and I love breathing so much, I became a breathwork facilitator. So it served me so much in my own journey, in my own healing journey, my regulation journey. Every single day, it’s an anchor for me. So I facilitate people for shorter couple of minutes before a call. I facilitate people for an hour of breathwork. And you won’t believe the transformations.

 

You know, it’s helping to regulate our nervous systems. It’s helping us move from that state of stress into that state of rest and digest. So especially when we’re moving so fast, it can be hard to shift gears. It’s like moving from sixth gear into first gear. You know, the breath helps us go down in gears and it’s easy and it’s accessible. So we don’t have to think our way into relaxation. We just breathe our way into relaxation.

 

Lucy Gernon (19:09.348)

love that.

 

Shauna Moran (19:09.676)

It’s lowering that blood pressure. It’s going to help us sleep better. There’s so many benefits when we’re oxygenating the body. And the thing about the breath as well, Lucy, is that like, we take so many breaths a day, how many of them are conscious?

 

Lucy Gernon (19:26.209)

Mmm.

 

Shauna Moran (19:27.906)

Right? That’s a question for your listeners. How many times am I actually thinking about my breath? You can breathe in a meeting. Nobody’s going to know.

 

You know, you can do it in the car when you’re picking up your kids.

 

Lucy Gernon (19:38.576)

I need to address an objection right now that I know what’s happening with some of my listeners. So if you are multitasking, come back to me. I’ve had clients who say to me, I don’t have time for this fluffy stuff. Right. Some of my listeners are not listening because they’ve heard all of this before. This well-being, just like you said, it doesn’t land with people. What do they need to hear for them, for the person who’s listening, who thinks this is fluff?

 

Because I know what you’re saying is absolutely 100 % scientifically proven and true. What needs to happen for them to really hear the message that is coming from you today? Because I think it’s so important.

 

Shauna Moran (20:17.326)

Yeah.

 

Shauna Moran (20:21.974)

I have a question for those people. What have you got to lose?

 

Lucy Gernon (20:31.184)

tried other strategies right, it hasn’t worked.

 

Shauna Moran (20:33.976)

What have you got to lose? You know, I’m not here to convince anybody. Everybody has their own journey. And I think at a point there comes a time where you become open to trying because there’s nothing else. And I hope people don’t get to that stage, but a lot of people do. So what have you got to lose?

 

Lucy Gernon (20:58.746)

Yeah.

 

Shauna Moran (21:02.51)

And what’s really holding you back from connecting with yourself. It’s often a fear. It’s a fear of slowing down. You know, and we’ve all been there, the fear of slowing down. If I slow down, I might lose whatever, lose the momentum, lose the progress I’ve made. Start to observe the stories that you’re telling yourself. If you know something has to change, but you’re not making the change, it’s about the story you’re telling yourself.

 

Lucy Gernon (21:32.24)

I love what you said there as well about it. Like sometimes it is that it’s the slowing down and it’s also the fact that it’s easier for us to look externally. It’s easier for us to keep busy. It’s easier for us to keep going, but it does involve connecting with yourself, which can be super hard for people. So just take today, guys, and just reflect on this because I know it’s definitely hit some of you.

 

Shauna Moran (21:33.496)

So.

 

Lucy Gernon (21:56.75)

And then just to move on, Shona, just to, you know, some practical strategies that my listeners can use to support them to lead more clarity and more impact, more confidence.

 

Shauna Moran (22:07.822)

Yeah, for sure. So we’ve spent a lot of time talking about us as individuals, what we can do, how we can manage stress, all of those things. Going beyond that, I do want to share with listeners, it’s really important that you’re getting a couple of things from your leader, your direct leader, to make sure that you are feeling your best and that you’re reducing those unhealthy stresses. So number one, I would say, is clarity.

 

So role clarity, what are you clear on, what you’re responsible for, what your responsibilities are. Clarity is very important for us as women as well. It regulates our nervous system when we can ensure that, hey, this is how I see it. Do you say it in same way? Perfect, let’s go. If there’s a lack of clarity, it can be very stressful because we’re trying to do it all in the hopes that we will achieve whatever that vision is. So clarity.

 

Even if it’s a 30, 60, 90 day plan right now, know, put it together, share it with your leader. Are we on the same page? That’s going to support you. Clarity is hard right now because things are changing so fast. There’s a lot of uncertainty. So thinking about the micro ways that you can get clarity as to what you’re doing and what you’re actually. I worked with a leader recently. I did a workshop with two weeks ago and I caught up with her yesterday and she said, Shona, it was the clarity that was getting me the lack.

 

clarity and stuff. I’ve had so many amazing conversations. I feel like a new woman now, like I feel really clear and back again in that optimal state. Great. So thinking about clarity, the other thing is support. So what does support look like? Strong women need strong support systems. I always say that. So thinking about what’s the support that you’re getting from your leader? You know, are you even having one to ones? Oftentimes at executive levels, they kind of get put out.

 

you know, put to the side, but they are really, really important for your clarity and other things for feedback, for, you know, problem solving, brainstorming, all of those things. So making sure that you have a regular cadence in there with your leader, even if you have to send your leader the invite and just have it in the calendar. Do it. That’s key to you feeling at your best. There’s other things like workload management, making sure that it’s realistic.

 

Shauna Moran (24:28.726)

and that there’s realistic timelines and don’t roll your eyes listeners. It is really important and it makes sense. If any of those things are out of whack, they’re going to be sources of chronic stress for us. And here’s the thing you may say, well, Shona, I have all the time unrealistic timelines and my workload isn’t manageable. Okay, grand, that might be a fact. However, what are you doing to collect data on that to build a case for more resources, for more team members?

 

That is on you. So data is king and queen, in my opinion. So it’s building cases for that. If you find that you’re constantly managing an unmanageable workload, you probably are. And I want you to think about how many hours in a workweek do I have and how much time each of these things are taken up and actually do the calculations on that. So you can have informed data driven conversations about the future and making sure it’s more manageable and realistic.

 

Lucy Gernon (25:27.536)

I love that one because I think that’s something that so many women obviously struggle with, right? You hear it all the time, I hear it all the time. And it’s just making me think of a client I’m working with now in my membership 360. And she was terrified to do this. She was terrified to actually say that she wanted more resources, she wanted X-ray and Z. But what actually ended up happening when she did exactly what Sianna had just said, guys, she got the data, she put together a case.

 

Shauna Moran (25:27.541)

and

 

Lucy Gernon (25:57.008)

When she presented this to the CEO, the CEO commended her. It wasn’t a failure on, and that’s the thing, it’s not a failure on your part when you do this, right? It’s actually, sometimes I think we women, see it as we should be able to take on all of this. So I just, I share that because I want you to know that you might be thinking that it’s a failure, but actually, and I’m sure Shona, you have tons of stories of women who have pushed back and actually been commended too.

 

Shauna Moran (26:23.648)

Yeah, absolutely Lucy, because the thing is, it’s high performers that are more likely to experience burnout, which you’ll never know because they’re just doing it and they’re performing so well. So oftentimes other people like your CEO, they don’t know what’s actually on your plate because you’re just doing it and you’re smiling through it. So they’re like, sure Lucy’s grand. Not a bother.

 

Lucy Gernon (26:32.143)

Yeah.

 

Shauna Moran (26:51.448)

but that may not be the case. So the data is going to inform if that’s not the case and build the next steps. So, yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (26:58.254)

Yeah, and like the more you deliver as well, isn’t it? If you keep delivering, like what’s going to happen, like they’re going to keep giving you the work because you’re saying yes. And yeah, you’ve got to push back. And what about the organization piece then, Shona? Like, what can we do there?

 

Shauna Moran (27:05.838)

Yeah, that’s it. That’s it.

 

Shauna Moran (27:14.07)

Yeah, so, you know, things like unfair treatment at work is a big source of chronic stress for women in leadership. I know that’s probably a whole other podcast, Lucy, but I do want to mention it because, you know, if we’re experiencing unfair treatment, harassment, bullying, any of those things, that’s going to be a major source of chronic stress and that’s going to burn us out the quickest than anything. So, you know, I hope that nobody’s.

 

Lucy Gernon (27:39.682)

Define unfair, sorry, define unfair treatment because that’s quite subjective, right?

 

Shauna Moran (27:44.884)

It is, it is, it is. And, you know, when we think about unfair treatment in relation to burnout, it is a constant, a constant experience of poor treatment. So beyond just, you know, the odd microaggression, but a relationship that is directly impacting us in a negative way over time. So as I said, kind of, you know, that bullying, that harassment.

 

Lucy Gernon (28:07.984)

Mm.

 

Shauna Moran (28:12.254)

and that happens over a period of time. It’s very common for women in the workplace and women in leadership. And it’s actually how I burnt out the second time. So I do understand the impact that that can have emotionally, physically, mentally over time. It’s not a nice experience. And so I hope nobody’s going through that, but I always do share that because if you are, I think it’s really important to actually start having.

 

Lucy Gernon (28:15.588)

Yeah.

 

Shauna Moran (28:40.186)

trusted conversations around that, actually documenting what’s happened and start to lean into trusted sources if you can, like your HR team, to understand more about the situation. And I do work a lot with women who have gone through that and are trying to rebuild their confidence after that and who are going through it and need to kind of work through a plan on that as well. So

 

It is more common, unfortunately, than we probably speak about. So that’s a big one on the organizational level.

 

Lucy Gernon (29:15.844)

What can you do? And I know we’re talking from an organization perspective, you know, in my experience, the word bullying and harassment, I may be a little bit controversial because I do think a lot of us should take responsibility. I think we’re all responsible for how we protect our energy. And I think so often we blame other people when actually I believe that when we work on ourselves and we build our resilience and we set our boundaries and we understand, you know, we build our self worth and our self value, we

 

we will realise that we don’t have to take that from anybody. And that’s the thing, like, if there are people listening who are going through that, like Shona said, you know, Shona has just said she’s gone through it. You’re absolutely not alone, but you don’t have to take it. But I believe to my core that we have far more power than we give ourselves credit for to control these situations, because you can work on yourself to develop confidence and certainty in yourself, or maybe you get to a point where the organisation is not for you.

 

and you make an empowered decision to say, ta-ta, I’m out of here, right?

 

Shauna Moran (30:17.41)

Yes, yes, life is too short and you always have a choice. However, when you’re in it and if you’ve been in it for a while, you forget that. So good reminders. Yeah, it can be. Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (30:24.974)

Yeah, it’s hard. Yeah, we’ve all been there. icky. Well, listen, Shauna, I am I always ask my goss, my guests a couple of questions. Like, I feel like I will definitely have to come back on the show and do a deep dive on this whole area of women being treated unfairly, because I feel like we could have a great conversation on it. So we’ll definitely pencil that in for later this year, early next year. But I always ask my guests, like what?

 

Shauna Moran (30:31.79)

Okay.

 

Shauna Moran (30:35.342)

you

 

Shauna Moran (30:45.752)

Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (30:52.388)

does success, balance and happiness mean to you?

 

Shauna Moran (30:56.014)

Yeah, yeah, love that question. For me, as I was reflecting on this, it came down to love. And it’s really important for me to love what I do, love the people that I’m surrounded with and be able to have love in my everyday. You know, it’s not that I have to love every aspect of my life all the time, but that the foundations I love and it’s about designing a life. haven’t always loved all aspects of my life, but I’ve

 

continually worked to design my life so that I can actually say that now. So yeah, it’s a nice moment to reflect on. It’s like, yeah, I love what I do. I love the people I’m around. I love where I live and I’ve designed that. So again, coming back to we always have a choice.

 

Lucy Gernon (31:43.696)

It’s like that Japanese concept, Ikegai. It sounds like you’re really living your passion and you’re loving what you’re doing and you’re serving a great purpose. Like keep up the fantastic work. So rewarding. And the other question I always ask is what is one of the best pieces of advice you’ve ever received?

 

Shauna Moran (32:00.578)

Yeah, my godfather used to say to me when I was younger, Shauna, if you if you settle for second best, you’ll very often get it. And I applied that not straight away. had to learn a few lessons, but I applied that to all areas of my life. I applied that to my career, to the workplaces I worked in. I applied that to the friendships that I had, the boyfriends that I had.

 

and I never settled. Maybe I didn’t realize it sometimes when I was in the moment of some of these experiences, but there did always come a point where it kind of went off like a light bulb. I’m settling and I choose not to. So that’s been really powerful for me. And I must tell him he had such a big impact on me. Yeah, yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (32:51.096)

Yeah, write my gratitude letter. That’s unbelievably powerful. Shona, I have absolutely loved the depth of this conversation. feel like I haven’t had a deep conversation like this in the podcast in a while. I really feel the depth and the emotion behind what you’re sharing. So I just want to say thank you so much. I know that this conversation has for sure helped some people listening. If people want to find out more about you, where can they find you?

 

Shauna Moran (33:17.646)

Yeah, thank you, Lucy. I’ve really appreciated the conversation and look forward to another one. And thanks for facilitating all these conversations and helping women in the way that you do. It’s so important. And yeah, I loved being here today. If anybody wants to connect with me, ask me questions about their executive team or their leadership development, or if they’re a woman in leadership or any questions on today at all, feel free to reach out. My website is www.seanamorin.

 

and you’ll also find me on LinkedIn. I’m not on anything else but LinkedIn. So yeah, find me there. Yeah.

 

Lucy Gernon (33:52.272)

LinkedIn, very good. You’ll find it over there. Amazing. Listen, Seán, thank you so much for being a fantastic guest. Until next time, we will talk to you then.