#168 5 Game-Changing Leadership Lessons from Powerful Women You Need to Hear

Lucy Gernon (00:01.57)
Happy International Women’s Day. In this special episode of the 360 Leadership Podcast, we are revisiting some of the most inspiring female leaders who have graced the show. These women have shared powerful insights on leadership, confidence and career growth. And today we’re bringing you the best of their wisdom. You’ll hear from Marie Moynihan who dives into the power of managing your mindset and setting boundaries and building a strong personal brand to elevate your leadership presence.

Aoife O’Brien tackles the tough topic of micromonagement, how to handle it, set boundaries and advocate for yourself confidently in the workplace. Catherine Doyle shares the power of self-investment, making time for mentorship and architecting your own career success. Selena Resvani breaks down the unconscious biases women in leadership face and how to flip the script when your confidence and assertiveness are misinterpreted. And finally, Barbara O’Malley sheds light on the future of leadership

why companies must rethink work-life integration and how women leaders can push for real change. This episode is packed with golden nuggets that every ambitious woman in senior leadership needs to hear. So grab your coffee, get comfortable and let’s get into it.

Welcome to the 360 Leadership Podcast, the top rated show for driven women in senior leadership with new episodes released every Wednesday. I’m your host, Lucy Gurnan, a multi award winning executive coach for women leaders and the founder of 360 Leaders Club, an exclusive high level membership for career driven, family orientated women just like you. I created the 360 Leadership Podcast to share practical tips, actionable step by step strategies and inspiring stories.

to support you to unlock the power and belief within, to accelerate your impact and potential so you can build a life filled with success, balance and happiness. So are you ready to achieve 360° success? No more excuses, no more waiting. Your time is now.

Lucy Gernon (02:05.312)
In this clip, I am joined by the incredible Marie Moynihan, who is a senior HR leader with Dell Technologies. She shares game changing insights on mastering your mindset, setting boundaries and building a powerful personal brand. She also shapes some fantastic ideas on confidence, all about protecting your time and how to be known for something, how it can transform your career. So without further ado, here’s Marie Moynihan.

Lucy Gernon (02:35.704)
To manage your head, to me, this is all about how much your feelings actually are influenced by your thoughts. And so if you can get control of how you think and you can stop yourself from going into a negative thought pattern, then you’re going to feel much better and that’s going to drive your confidence up. So it’s all a connected circle that starts, in my view, with your thought process.

Yeah. So some of the things that I try to do there is like a lot of how I approach life is try in business is try to keep calm and balanced, right? Because there’s so many difficult decisions, there’s so many people involved, there’s so much emotion involved in lot of these decisions that if you don’t stay calm, you kind of can’t think logically, you know? So so to do that, I’m very aware of like my physical

and kind of mental well-being. So I do a lot of exercise. I know what it takes to keep me centered. And that’s different for everyone. So you have to find that out for yourself. I know it’s for me, it’s sleep. I need at least seven to eight hours of sleep a night. If I don’t get that, I can’t think straight. And if I don’t have physical exercise, I get very anxious. know, so just those kind of things. It’s as I say, it’s different for everyone, but you need to know.

And then you need to draw boundaries around those things. Like, you know, and I’m very cognizant of I don’t mind how hard I work during the week, but my weekends are very precious to me and I do not want to be working at the weekends. So I am very aware of like drawing those boundaries. You know, people who work with me know that, like, if they want me at the weekend, they have to WhatsApp me because I’m not checking my emails. Yeah. You know, and they adapt.

Absolutely, and I think there’s a myth, especially at executive level, that you need to be on 24-7, but in fact, that’s just setting the culture for the rest of the organization. So I love that you’re saying that because if you switch off at the weekend, you give your team permission to switch off at the weekend. Yeah. so that’s amazing. The other thing, I would actually talk to you all day if somebody questions.

Lucy Gernon (04:48.382)
And the other thing you had said that really struck me at the event that I saw you speak out was about your personal brand. And you said something like, nobody likes volatility in the corporate world. And that, you you don’t know which version of you we’re going to get. And that just really struck a chord with me because I’ve seen so many volatile leaders and they’re the kind of people that you go up to when you’re kind of going, shit, what mood is she going to be in today? Can I ask with this question? And talk to me a little bit first of all about

What is a personal brand and how important is it for you to, I suppose, portray the brand that you want to portray? Yeah. So, look, mean, personal brand in my mind is, you know, it’s that gut instinct people have when they hear your name. So if I say, you know, do you know Lucy? And it’s that, yes, I know Lucy or, yeah, I know Lucy.

type of thing, right? So it’s that instant feeling you get about someone. That’s in a sense what their brand in your mind is, right? And it is hugely important because it’s very, very powerful in it. To me, it’s a really competitive tool that you have in the work environment. So if you have a good brand, then, you know, you are much more liable.

to have people tap you on the shoulder and say, hey, listen, we have a role coming up in three months time. Is it something you would be interested in, et cetera? But to have a good personal brand, have to, first of all, be known, right? Which means that you can’t just be in your little silo, beavering away and nobody knows you. Like, that’s not helpful. So you have to be known in your own, I suppose, fear, but also beyond that. So the bigger your network, the better, right?

And then you have to be known for great work. Right. So you have to be known as someone who’s differentiated, will really bring value to them, someone they’d love to have on their team type of thing. So it’s those kind of two sides of it. Like there’s the known and then known for, I think that can really help your brand.

Lucy Gernon (07:07.382)
If you’ve ever felt micromanaged or struggled to set boundaries at work, this clip is going to be very useful for you. The fabulous Aoife O’Brien from Happier at Work joins me to share her powerful insights on tackling micromanagement, having tough conversations and stepping up with confidence. Get ready to take back control of your career.

Lucy Gernon (07:28.846)
So if we’ve somebody listening today who feels like they’re being micromanaged, first of all, you know, maybe they’re sitting there going like, I’m really not happy in this role. My boss is just, you know, constantly checking in on me and all of that. What advice would you have for that person? Yeah. The second question before I forget is how can our listeners who are managing teams not be that leader? there’s two parts to it. Okay, absolutely fine. So number one.

I have a manager who is totally micro managing me and that was me. I’ve had that a few times. And I think so many people can relate to this. And I think there’s a few different things. You need to knock it on a test. You need to have that difficult conversation with the person. And it’s not about them being a micromanager. It’s to put the focus on you. So it’s like anytime you’re delivering feedback, the feedback is not about the person. It’s about the behavior and the impact that the behavior is having on you. So.

I’ll use my personal example. What my manager used to do was check my calendar. He used to go into my calendar every day and see, Eva has a whole load of free space in her calendar. She needs more work. I’m going to pile a whole load more work onto her. Now I didn’t have a whole load of free time. I wrote my tasks down in a notebook separately. That wasn’t going into my calendar. wasn’t time blocking or anything like that. So he was piling all of this extra work on me and basically even me to fend for myself.

You know, I couldn’t say anything. So it’s having that difficult conversation upfront, addressing the issue and the impact that it’s having on you. The other thing that you can do is anticipate. So if they’re checking your work all the time, how can you sit down and reflect and anticipate why they’re doing that? What you can do to alleviate it? You know, what’s their motivation for actually checking in?

Is it that they don’t trust you? then how can you build a better trust with them? Is it that someone else is leaning on them? You know, what are the reasons behind this and put yourself in their shoes? There must be a reason that they’re doing this. Do they want better sense of control? How do you give them a better sense of control? Can you send something in advance so that they don’t have to check in on you? Can you send stuff in the interim? So if you have a deliverable, for example, that’s not you for a couple of weeks and then

Lucy Gernon (09:50.998)
You give it to them and they’re going through it saying, this is wrong. That’s wrong. Can you get check-ins on the way to say, can you provide a bit of guidance? It’s anticipating those kinds of things that is going to not cause you heartache when you kind of finally go to deliver something at the end. So that’s what I would say from the, if you are being managed by someone like that. Okay. And just before I move off that one, then so.

I couldn’t agree more. talk about that myself a lot as well. But the biggest block I see with people actually implementing that is having the courage to actually set boundaries and stand up for themselves. So what are your tips around that? Oh, God, that’s a toughie, isn’t it? And, you know, similar to myself when I was in that role. Sure, I didn’t say anything. I was staying in the office and I was crying my eyes out. Everyone else had gone home.

This was in Sydney. There was a very much a nine to five culture. People weren’t staying beyond five. They were going out for drinks in the evening and stuff like that. So it is hard, but I think you need to put on your big girl knickers and actually do it. If you want something to change, you have to take responsibility. No one else is going to come in and be like, poor Aoife, look at her. She’s staying all of the late hours. You have to.

take responsibility for that. And if you want something to change, then you have to communicate it. There’s no two ways about it. No one else is going to do that for you. There are some things in life that you can outsource, that you can get other people to do, but there are some things that you cannot outsource and that you have to learn to take responsibility for yourself.

Lucy Gernon (11:25.91)
If you’re so busy putting out fires at work that you’ve forgotten to invest in yourself and put you first, this part is a must listen. The fabulous Catherine Doyle, MD of a technology company well known shares why taking control of your time, prioritizing self investment and seeking mentorship and sponsors are game changers for your career. Enjoy.

Lucy Gernon (11:51.64)
A lot of women that I would work with and see and speak to are so in the weeds, okay? They’re so in the weeds, they’re so in the detail, they’re so busy getting their day job done. There’s a lot of fires to be fought every day, there’s team complexities, there’s murders, there’s end of year appraisals, there’s all of this stuff that just seems to be going on which seems to block them from actually taking the time to have the conversation with a mentor or pick up the, know, send an email and say, will you sponsor me?

So that’s one part of it. And then the other part of it is the actual courage to reach out. So what would you say to anybody who is in that position? Okay, well, firstly, I think if there’s somebody who is so busy and you know, we’ve all fallen into the trap, where they’re not investing in themselves and giving themselves time, they need to basically make time. I mean, it’s not really that complicated, but it means if your job stroke career is driving you as opposed to you driving it,

then I guess it’s got the wrong balance. I advise my team to put aside an hour or two on a Friday for self-investment every Friday. Okay. And whether that’s to read a book, go for a walk, think about something that they want to work on, write something down. I don’t know, listen to a podcast, read Wikipedia, whatever it is, it doesn’t matter. I think it’s really important that you actually diary time to do that. There’s a lot of demand on time, but you know what? Realistically, there’s nothing that

that drives you that hard that you couldn’t have an hour or two for yourself on a Friday to actually figure out what you want to do and take that time. And I always feel, well, for me anyway, it works really well in the mornings when my brain is fresher. I think once the afternoon comes, it’s time to kind of start figuring out how the day is going to end with the tasks completed. So I think it’s a really good thing to do it in the morning if that’s what works for you. It doesn’t work for everyone. The second part is how do you figure out who to mentor?

A lot of companies now have formal mentoring programs. I mean, that’s definitely something to engage with. We have a really good mentoring program at Dell and it’s really encouraged as part of our culture. So that’s great. So it’s easier to do it in a company like that. If you don’t have that, then you can always reach out to somebody you know, if you’re comfortable with that. And if that’s, know, again, there’s nobody there that you feel comfortable with. There’s a lot of networks, professional networks out there.

Lucy Gernon (14:18.894)
that you can attend that actually support women. But you do have to engage with it. mean, you know, it is again, it’s back to architecting your career, taking control. And I guess it’s also making peace with, know, it might always work out. And you know, that’s okay too. Don’t take that personally. That happens to everybody. Nothing, you know, everything doesn’t go great all the time. So it’s a matter of just, know, if it doesn’t work out, just go and find that didn’t work, you know, next thing, what will I work on next?

And I think that’s really a key part of it. So that would be the advice I would give just to take back control, get some time in the diary so you have a space to do it and then figure out, you know, what are you going to, you know, integrate into that space that would help you with your career?

Lucy Gernon (15:08.022)
In this clip, I’m joined by the fantastic Selena Rezvani, who dives into gender bias and why women are judged differently when we do the same things as men. She’s talking all about the tightrope women walking leadership, how to challenge unfair assessments at the table, and so much more. This episode, I absolutely love this one. So get ready for eye-opening insights and practical strategies. Let’s go.

Lucy Gernon (15:34.968)
How do we control the response when it’s so ingrained in ourselves? Like what are your tools and tips and tactics to be able to respond more thoughtfully? Well, so one of them, you know, I described that tightrope that women can sometimes walk when they behave out of stereotype, right? In more agentic behaviors that we stereotypically have associated as masculine.

Okay. That women sometimes get punished for doing that, being decisive, you know, being particularly assertive in their approach or style. And so I think one of the things is listening for kind of stereotyped or punishing assessments of people. Maybe it’s review time, and you’re sitting around a table and you know, people are saying, you know, I think Mike has great leadership potential, but Susan,

She really needs to work on her interpersonal skills, kind of smiling more. Right? To be aware of these things when we hear them around us, maybe even when they come out of our mouths. So I think that’s one thing is where bias breeds is in people decisions, promotions, rewards, compensation, hiring, who gets plum assignments and stretch opportunities.

So really making a point to tune in and listen that things are being handled equitably when those people decisions are getting made, which is often. my God. You know what? You’re bringing me back when you were saying that to a scenario that I remember now. And it’s like all the light bulb moments just went off. I had a team member who was really assertive in my team when I used to work in corporate and she was the kind of person she got things done. She didn’t take any crap and

I just thought she was fantastic because she was so results driven. She was able to manage the team, et cetera, et cetera. And I remember sitting around the table with, you know, at the end of year time with the rest of the people on the leadership team. And we were, you know, rating everybody. And this girl, wanted her in the outperform category because she delivered such value for the company. She was fantastic. And there was this one guy who dealt with her regularly.

Lucy Gernon (17:57.99)
And he was like, no, she doesn’t, she really doesn’t. She’s uncooperative. And so because she wasn’t jumping through hoops for him when he needed her to, he saw that as uncooperative. And I just think now I’m like, that’s why, because I never really understood. Like she was fantastic, but really I think it was because he was quite a dominant. And he was used to people saying yes. And she was saying, no, I can’t do this. So if some of my listeners are resonating with this and I know they are.

How would you advise they handle that situation if they’re at the leadership table? What kind of questions or what can they do to influence it? Yeah, that’s such a great example. And it’s so shocking in a way that two people assessing the same person can think so differently, right? That you’re sitting there going, wow, what a producer she really delivers. And he’s going, she’s not as compliant and cooperative as I’d like.

wow, right? It’s the same person but viewed so differently. And I think in a case like that, one thing we can do is to flip the script. So if we hear somebody saying, you know, I, I just don’t think X person smiles enough. I don’t think she brings enough warmth and friendliness in her interactions. Flipping the script and saying, would we say that about her male peer? Would that fly?

Does it raise some alarm bells that wait a minute? You know what? We would never say that about Mike. Let’s be real. You know, we would never say that about Joe, but we are saying it about her. What’s going on?

Lucy Gernon (19:41.12)
In this fifth and final clip, the fantastic Barbara O’Malley, is a Chief People Officer, talks about how workplaces can truly support women at every stage of life. This is really valuable because she’s sharing all about boundaries, tackling taboo topics and listening to the next generation because they’re actually the ones shaping the future of inclusive leadership. Check it out.

Lucy Gernon (20:07.884)
One had really kind of pushed the boundaries on it and they actually came up with what I thought was a brilliant concept of being there in those moments that matter. Being there for irrespective of the moment because we all go through different changes in our lives. Some are inevitable. Some may just be foisted upon us. So it was a range of stuff from surrogacy, fertility, domestic abuse. There was 10 in total and they launched that series throughout 2023.

And it wasn’t just about providing annual leave, it was about creating the awareness, was about putting in place manager guides and training managers on how to have those delicate conversations. And it was actually just start the conversations more than anything else. Like traditionally taboo topics were now being discussed and talked about. And that was really, really important. And we…

We do track and measure how we’re doing in our DEI. have a DEI measure as part of our annual survey. So that has been incrementally going up, even though it’s actually at quite a high level. But we’re improving all the time and we’re continuing to aim high on this, like because there’s so much more work to do. And you know this Lucy, through the work that you do, you know, we’re still underrepresented at senior female levels. We, you know, we have our board balance where we want, you know, we’ve met our targets with regard to our board, but we still have a lot more to do with regard to our female leaders. So really important that we continue to encourage people.

And like what impact have you seen? I mean, firstly, I love to hear that life matters, the kind of that whole slogan, because I think, I mean, especially with the younger generations coming up behind us, you’re probably seeing and hearing this too, like they they care way more about living their lives and their careers and they’re to walk out the door. So if companies don’t actually start to think about people’s lives, you know, they’re not there’s not going to be businesses, right? No, no.

Like what are you seeing in that space actually? curious. Yeah, we actually was about, God, it must be 15 months. We actually set up an advisory board with our Gen Z group because we’re quite well represented at the millennial and Gen X and baby boomer. But like we, were an underrepresented voice, maybe at the decision-making forum. So we set up a group of those individuals to start helping us shape some of the decisions that we were making across the organization. And I have to say,

Lucy Gernon (22:25.208)
they have been phenomenal to work with. The way they think, because they do think differently, they’re digitally native and the way they consume information, digest it and then present solutions. They’ve given us some really great ideas regarding some of the stuff we could do. They’re working on some of our early careers program work now at the moment so that we can at least ensure that we’re attracting our youth. But what really comes across when you work with them is they do want to be

connected with a sense of purpose. They do want to know that the work that they do adds value and not just to their pay packet, but actually to the wider world and society. And for us in Irish Life Group, we actually have a vision to be a driving force behind Ireland’s financial, physical, and mental well-being. And that’s not just for our customer base of 1.5 million customers. It’s actually for broader society. So that’s the way in which we have set out our plans for the next number of years.

the energy that’s going in behind that is unbelievable and people like our Gen Z Advisory Committee are influencing that agenda and they’re great to work with.

Lucy Gernon (23:31.584)
So I hope you enjoyed this little recap on this International Women’s Day. I’m celebrating each and every one of you and all of the fantastic women leaders that I have had on this show over the last couple of years. I really hope that you found inspiration from these clips. And if you want to go and check out all of the episodes in full, we will link them in the show notes below. So ensure that you do, because these are honestly there’s so many good takeaways in these ones. My key takeaways from them.

really I suppose is first your thoughts control everything so be mindful of the stories you tell yourself. Second, if I was working in the corporate world right now I would absolutely seek out a strategic sponsor and if you want that you have got to take initiative and reach out. Don’t wait for your boss, don’t wait, just go and do it. And finally, as you guys know boundaries are one thing that is so so important and when you’re setting boundaries it really isn’t just about work-life balance.

It’s actually a strategic move that will allow you to grow and thrive in your career and get the recognition and that sense of achievement and accomplishment that I know that you really want. So if this episode resonated with you, honestly, I’d really love to hear your thoughts. I love hearing from my podcast listeners. And if I’ve inspired you in some way, sending me a DM today on International Women’s Day would really mean the world to me because I love connecting with you and

So many of you reach out to me and every time you do, my team and I do a little happy dance. So just send me a little email or send me a DM if you follow me on social media or comment wherever you’re listening to this podcast. I would love, love to connect with you. And if you know people at work, if you’ve got an ERG, if you’ve got a network, if you’re part of a group of women in leadership, today will be a great day.

to share the 360 Leadership podcast. And this episode in particular is going to give them a great flavor of what the show is all about. So let’s just grab that link and just send it on and recommend that they listen to the show. It would be awesome for us, but also you’re going to be inspiring so many women. And as I always say, when women support women, that’s how we change the world. All right, happy International Women’s Day. Until next time, take care, be kind to yourself. Bye for now.